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  1. #111
    Paleophil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    We are on the same page. The most potent RS sources we have ID'd (potato/tapioca starch) contain at most 80% RS, the other 20% must be easily digestible starch.
    Ah, that could explain the slightly sweet taste I get from potato starch.

    If that was all you ate for carbs, then it would not be similar to SuperStarch, but I think if you add some potato starch to a fruit smoothie or the sour cream on your potato, or along with any medium carb intake, then it acts like a buffer for the release of the glucose--that seems to be the theory anyway, and I can see it pretty well by checking my pp BG after a plain potato or a potato+potato starch. Big difference.
    That sounds like it can act quickly. Some sources say it takes longer to work, such as overnight, because it has to reach the colon. Are there earlier effects too? Maybe the body senses the resistant starch before it reaches the colon and that signals some processes?

    I was being a bit facetious when I said it was a direct replacement for SuperStarch, I actually think potato starch is a better choice.
    I think you mean potato starch plus carbs.

    Yes, I came across the Skinny Carbs Diet in my searches.

    I am leaning towards the idea that if one is eating a high fat, very low carb diet, then gut fermentation of carb fractions is not that important. However, if one is eating a carb-containing carnivore diet, then fermentable fiber should be a huge consideration.
    Even the Inuit ate raw wild Eskimo potatoes, so there may also be benefits to RS for VLC dieters. For example, RS may help avoid some of the long term issues that many VLCers report.

    It's a bit off topic, but pectin is another fermentable fiber that I rarely see mentioned (inulin seems to be the most talked about one):
    "Prebiotic effect

    Following ingestion of pectin, very little of it gets digested in the small intestine. Some fermentation of pectin takes place in the large intestine via the action of bacteria. Pectin substituents (homogalacturonans) are fermented in the colon with the formation of short chain fatty acids. It has been shown that non-methyl-esterified pectins were more rapidly fermented than methyl-esterified pectins. The final products of fermentation of pectin are the short-chain fatty acids, acetate, propionate and butyrate, as well as hydrogen and carbon dioxide. The short-chain fatty acids that escape colonic metabolism are transported via the portal circulation to the liver where they undergo metabolism. The short-chain fatty acids that are not metabolised in the liver enter the systemic circulation and are distributed to the various tissues of the body. Acetate appears to be the principal short-chain fatty acid to reach the systemic circulation from the liver. Pectins are therefore beginning to gain interest as prebiotics. Studies on the metabolising of pectin chains has shown that many bacteria can degrade certain regions of the polymers, generally the HG regions. This use of a plentiful polysaccharide in maintaining and encouraging digestive flora is of advantage in assessing pectin uses in the future."

    Pectin basics - Nutritional aspects of pectins
    Pectin basics - Nutritional aspects of pectins | CyberColloids
    Last edited by Paleophil; 08-15-2013 at 09:08 PM.

  2. #112
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    Even the Inuit ate raw wild Eskimo potatoes, so there may also be benefits to RS for VLC dieters. For example, RS may help avoid some of the long term issues that many VLCers report.
    You'll never convince them, though, which is why I gave up trying...

    re: Pectin - good call! I see Apple Pectin in the healthfood stores, never knew much about it. I bought a jar of ground psyllium husks, but they turn to instant jelly when you mix them with stuff unless you completely water it down. Psyllium husk is a 'mucilage' type of fermentable fiber.

    Another interesting fermentable fiber is Larch Arabinogalactan, or Larch AG, a fermentable fiber found in Larch trees. Larch trees are known throughout the north as a tree full of medicinal qualities.

    A strange thing about dietary fiber--all of the guidelines are for total fiber, approx 30g/day, with the only distinction being soluble or insoluble (in water). No distinction is made between fermentable and nonfermentable. I think most people who aim for 30g a day end up eating nearly all of it in non-fermentable form (cellulose, lignin) and not the fermentable types (resistant starch, pectines, beta-glucans, gums (e.g. guar), inulin, oligosaccharides).

    I saw a study that discussed the 'carbohydrate gap' phenomenon in fermentable fibers saying that most fermentable fibers were self-limiting to about 5g/day--any over that amount ends up in feces--while RS can be assimilated up to about 60g/day.

  3. #113
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    For someone who wanted to add some resistant starch to their diet in the form of whole foods, cooked and cooled potatoes would be a good start, right? I think these also happen to be ever so delicious. My question is, if you then reheat these potatoes, do they again lose that quality of being resistant starch, or not?

  4. #114
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    If you reheat potatoes, you then need to recool them again, at least mostly. Think potato salad a favorite food at picnics this time of year.

    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    You'll never convince them, though, which is why I gave up trying...

    re: Pectin - good call! I see Apple Pectin in the healthfood stores, never knew much about it.
    The fact that fruit pectin is a fermentable fiber is an interesting coincidence with the research I've seen that the earliest primates consumed fermented tree foods like fermented tree saps and fermented honey and an anecdotal report that wild orangutans like to ferment fruits like durians to the point where they become mildly alcoholic and another report that bears love the smell of fermenting fruit. Perhaps not just fermented saps/honey, but also fermented fibery wild fruit was another ancient staple food.

    Yes, the larch tree is a sacred tree, along with pine, birch, cedar, rowan, etc. Is the fermentable fiber in the inner pulpy bark that the ancients used to eat? Yes, fermentable vs. nonfermentable is recognized as more important by the latest science, but the soluble/insoluble meme keeps gettting repeated.

  5. #115
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    roasted then refridgerated potatoes with cider vinegar has become my favorite way to have potatoes. Can't wait to get my blood work done on monday.

  6. #116
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    There are very few foods you can eat hot that have RS in them. Of the standard, recognizable, foods, green bananas stand out in terms of RS. A super-duper green, too-hard-too-peel, inedible banana should have close to 30g. When it ripens to where you can just peel it, it will have about 15g, when mostly yellow, 2-3g.

    A great big potato, 1pound/500g in size, would have about 50g if eaten raw. Boiled and eaten hot--2-3g, allowed to cool overnight in fridge--5-10g. That's a lot of potato salad to eat just for 5-10g of RS.

    However, if you included cooked and cooled potatoes regularly in your normal eating plans, whatever amount, and cooked and cooled rice, greenish bananas, beans, and nuts like almonds or macadamias, you could easily get 10-20g/day--which is like 5 times the amount of most people.

    "How is that Ancestral?" you ask. If it's not easily available, why bother--surely Grok didn't, right? As pointed out by PaleoPhil, there were lots of ancestral foods very high in RS that have become totally unfamiliar to modern man. Breadfruit, sago palm pith, cattail roots, fermented taro, and some others. Add that to the steady supply of fermentable fiber that H-Gs had to eat to keep from starving such as fermented fruit, tree bark, whole seeds, raw tubers and lots of plants we wouldn't consider food.

    I think for modern man, Mark's daily BAS (big-ass salad) filled with a wide variety of veggies and not just lettuce, along with some of the foods I mentioned earlier for RS daily is a really good plan, and easy, and at not a really heavy calorie/carb toll.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    You'll never convince them, though, which is why I gave up trying...
    What I mainly haven't been convinced of is that it was raw.... or that there are no ill consequence to consuming significant amounts of raw potato. Or maybe I didnt see it, did you ever find something to allay those fears?

    Frankly though compared to most around here I'm a huge eater of nuts and seeds. So I probably get more RS than your average PBer from those sources.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    What I mainly haven't been convinced of is that it was raw.... or that there are no ill consequence to consuming significant amounts of raw potato. Or maybe I didnt see it, did you ever find something to allay those fears?

    Frankly though compared to most around here I'm a huge eater of nuts and seeds. So I probably get more RS than your average PBer from those sources.
    Eating raw potato is harmless and self-limiting. Who wants to eat raw potatoes very often? A slice here and there maybe, but not as a staple.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Eating raw potato is harmless and self-limiting. Who wants to eat raw potatoes very often? A slice here and there maybe, but not as a staple.
    I like raw potatoes, especially with salt and pepper.

    Raw potatoes got me in trouble as a kid--my mom would peel, slice, potatoes and set them aside in cold water. I would go into the kitchen, repeatedly, and "steal" them, to the point she would notice.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcadav View Post
    I like raw potatoes, especially with salt and pepper.

    Raw potatoes got me in trouble as a kid--my mom would peel, slice, potatoes and set them aside in cold water. I would go into the kitchen, repeatedly, and "steal" them, to the point she would notice.
    We used to do the exact same thing. And, we'd steal another good RS source--cookie dough.

    Speaking of cookie dough, I make a killer batch with plantain flour. Make it just like the chocolate chip package says, substitute whatever for sugar, freeze it in 1TBS size balls. Each ball has about 5g of RS. Easy to eat 4 of those babies (hard to stop actually).

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