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Thread: Weight lifting substitute for squats and deadlifts page 2

  1. #11
    RichMahogany's Avatar
    RichMahogany is online now Senior Member
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    Again, how does deadlifting correctly put "too much" strain on the piriformis? Isn't the point of lifting weights to provide a stimulus that provokes an adaptation? If it was too much strain for one of the muscles involved in performing the lift, the weight would stay on the ground.

    I never said you don't lift. Where did that comment even come from? I said your trouble with deadlifts may be in part due to the fact that you don't regularly deadlift. You brought up the form issue, not me. I find that performing a lift correctly and regularly makes keeping good form a lot easier.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by atmetal View Post

    As for seeing a doctor, I'm going tomorrow. Probably going to get x-rays. And I haven't even made an appointment. Military healthcare FTW.
    You must be lucky, or still active. Both of my grandfathers have had trouble with the VA for their health needs for decades, I know a retired (in the past few years) jump master that can barely walk from the absurd number of jumps he did in 20 something years and he just gets pushed around at the VA with no one wanting to do anything for him :/
    -Ryan Mercer my blog and Genco Peptides my small biz

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by atmetal View Post
    As it were, I was about to start a cut in which I just maintain my strength while losing fat. While I would normally be open to less intense body weight exercises, seeing the above numbers, I'm sure you'll agree that I would still lose strength. I'm not saying those numbers are particularly impressive, but I do weigh only 160 lbs, so they are at least respectable numbers, numbers I would very much like to keep. What I need is a weight lifting substitute for barbell movements.

    According to Mehdi of StrongLifts, weight machines are inferior because the machine supports the weight for you. I completely agree, but still wonder if I should make an exception in this case. Doing overhead press and rows with a machine is better than nothing. But before going to the machine for rows, I'm going to see how pullups feel.

    But I'm still lost as to how to get an acceptable squat/deadlift substitute. Any of those leg machines would isolate my muscles, allowing my legs to be much stronger than the rest of my posterior chain.

    I guess what I'm really after is a way to limit or completely prevent strength loss in my back without actually disturbing the injury for the next several weeks. I would really prefer not to have to start over with the empty bar when I'm finally healed.
    Don’t listen to macho idiocy like that, inferior for what? They may be inferior for lifting heavy ass loads, but may be good enough, or even better for muscle building and conditioning! If you have strained your lover back you should take a break from heavy compounds and do some machines instead. Try machine hack-lift instead of squats, do 15 -20 reps with feet close together, then take 5 - 6 deep breaths without racking and make your feet wider and do 12 – 15 reps, another time with knees pointing to the side and heels pointing towards each other do 10 – 12 reps, and finally feet close together but lover down than the first time 8 – 10 reps. That’s one giant set! Do 3 – 4 of those giant sets and you will see some serious changes in your legs without even doing any barbell squats.

    Instead of deadlift, you can do chest assisted rows, dumbbell rowing on a bench and upright rowing. All those exercises above should replace squat and deadlift and may even work better for muscle building, if that’s what you are going for…

  4. #14
    CE402's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atmetal View Post
    While I scoff at the stereotypical ignorance that people have about weight lifting...always assuming the motivation is to get massive, I had no intention of fucking around. But there are two main issues I'm concerned about. First, weight lifting is an extremely efficient way to gain well-rounded fitness. I know of no other way one can become capable of 100+ pushups at once from doing only a few heavy reps a couple of times a week. It is this level of strength that I wish to limit my losses on. I can continue to do bench press. I can substitute weighted pull ups for my rows. I'll find out if an overhead press machine feels okay (there really aren't many options for shoulder exercises that don't compress the spine). But it's the squats and deadlifts that I need to find substitute for. Sure, I could stick to body weight squats and hyper extensions, but that will only leave me as strong as those movements will allow, which is weaker than I am now.

    As for seeing a doctor, I'm going tomorrow. Probably going to get x-rays. And I haven't even made an appointment. Military healthcare FTW.
    Good luck, hope you get the answers you're looking for.

    My friend I was talking about is a fighter pilot, btw. Hurt his back on the job, too.

    And thank-you for your service.

  5. #15
    Dan Pope's Avatar
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    Atmetal,

    How long ago did you injure your back? A few things to keep in mind.
    1. Back pain can take a very long time to heal, several years sometimes but it generally goes away in most individuals.
    2. I'd be curious to see what your technique looks like, even 185lbs can be heavy and cause damage if done improperly.
    3. You can always substitute lunge, pistols and step-up variations into your program to get a similar effect.

    It might be worthwhile to take some time off from these exercises, really hammer your mobility for the squat and then begin again very slowly with perfect technique. here are my favorite exercises for squat mobility. Stretches and Mobility Drills to Prepare for the Snatch and Overhead Squat | FITNESS PAIN FREE

    Good luck buddy, let me know how it goes,
    Dan Pope Fitness Pain Free

  6. #16
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    I sure hope it doesn't take that long to heal...squatting is my favorite exercise and I having only done them for a few months now, I have been impressed with how much they have single handedly increased my overall fitness. For the sake of my dignity, I'll remind readers that I last squatted 210 lbs (still not that much) and it was a 185 lb warmup weight that made me finally see a doctor.

    As for substitutions, I recently tried both the 45-degree and horizontal leg press. Both caused very little back pain. I don't plan on increasing the weight, just minimizing the loss of strength, supplementing with back extensions. In the meantime, I'm hoping that the minor discomfort caused by the leg press is no cause for concern regarding my healing process.

    On the subject of technique, I do believe that might have something to do with it. But form has always been very important to me. So I'd like to think that if my form was bad, it was caused by external factors. Perhaps I was rushing my workout more than I used to due to a tighter schedule. Perhaps my back became too weak relative to my legs, in which case, I might blame the recovery, or lack thereof. I currently live in a high-stress classroom environment in a tough Naval program, getting on average 5 hours sleep a night. I have been eating at a calorie deficit for a while and I sit down in uncomfortable chairs for upwards of 14 hours a day, which reduces my hip mobility and overall flexibility. All this and more were probably contributing to my new injury.

    Aside from doing my best to minimize strength loss, I was already planning on long stretch sessions and foam rolling, neither of which I've ever done. I'm very excited to see how much better my squat improves when I finally return to squatting. Which is why my biggest fear is never returning. In fact, the prospect of never squatting again is worries me more than a medical discharge from the Navy.

  7. #17
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    I am surprised you get time to lift weights and to browse at the academy. What course are you doing?

    When I was a cadet, I was too exhausted from daily PT, drill and other activities to even think about lifting weights. I had a nightmare of a PT instructor who could make the fittest guy in the class crawl on the ground wiping the floor with his tongue in flat 3 minutes.
    Few but ripe.

  8. #18
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    I'm not at the Academy. I'm in the nuke program (enlisted). Different standards and rules exist for different classes, and I just happened to fall in the one of the luckiest. Only an overall good scored on the PFA is needed to be on voluntary PT (or as they put it, "self-PT"). While I may disagree with the principle, since it is not hard to score an overall good, I'm glad this standard exists, since I very much disagree with the methods the Navy employs to achieve fitness. I would much rather do it my way (the primal way). Previous classes have seen standards like no voluntary PT at all, voluntary PT if scored an excellent overall, and there's even different standards of frequency when PT is required (ex. 5 days vs 3 days a week). Because these PT standards and other standards reflect the difficulty of the academic side of training, I think the command is experimenting to see what ultimately produces the best learning environment.

    All I care about is the ridiculously easy standard for my class to be on self-PT. My pushups are excellent, probably thanks to my bench press. But my run and situps are just good. In my opinion, I have extremely good fitness. I've measured my resting heart rate as low as 37 bpm. My strength was constantly increasing in the gym before the injury. And despite never doing any endurance training, I can still knock out a respectable number of BW pushups, squats, etc. This is led me to believe that getting any higher a score on my 1.5 mile run or situps requires training specifically for those. For instance, compound lifts may work the core, but w/o specific ab work, 100+ situps is probably impossible.

    Anyway, that's the long-winded explanation for why I don't have PT. I don't know the Academy, but our free time is limited too. I have to make time for the gym, or I'll lose my self-PT status from degraded fitness over time. As for browsing the internet: I normally don't, but right now I'm on leave and have plenty of time.

  9. #19
    70in2012's Avatar
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    Primal philosophy is still too radical to digest for the general public leave alone large bureaucracies steeped in "tradition". So PT and mess menu ain't changing any time soon.

    Good luck with your recovery and training.
    Few but ripe.

  10. #20
    Dirlot's Avatar
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    Bodyweight squats working to towards pistol squats - they will keep your legs strong.
    Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
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