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Thread: Danny Roddy slams Paleo on Matt Stone's Blog page 5

  1. #41
    Rocco Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graycat View Post
    I think what not to eat it's super important here. Like, nearly eliminating all polyunsaturated fat from one's diet.

    Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?
    Yep, which Peat advocates 100%.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graycat View Post
    I think what not to eat it's super important here.....
    Me too.... SUGAR!

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Hill View Post
    I know this thread is old but for anyone still interested;

    Although I'm not dicking on what Derp eats, it's important to note that there is NO Ray Peat diet. So it's not as if he's telling people to eat Haagen Daz, gummy bears and mexi-coke. This is not necessarily indicative of what everyone who follows Peat actually eats. These things do specific things. Mexi-coke(which uses pure sugar as opposed to hfcs) increases co2, ice cream provides calcium, and in the case of gummy bears, provide gelatin and sugar(not the store made stuff). Simplistic but thats the gist.

    I consume neither of these things, and nor do many people who follow Peat. Milk, cheese, seafood, liver, red meat with gelatin, potato, fruit, butter, coconut oil, OJ, salt, white rice, carrots among other things are all foods he 'recommends'. He makes these recommendations based on his scientific research, rather than evolutionary speculation about what we should be eating. He tends to view it through the lens of our metabolism, temperature etc.

    It's important to actually research his work before commenting. The amount of times i've seen someone reference that Milk and carrot diet is ridiculous.
    Well said! I eat in a Peat fashion but definitely not liquid- or sugar-based. I eat many of his food recommendations that serve a specific purpose, like you mentioned. A very active and healthy weight individual may utilize a large supply of sugary foods/drinks, but I don't. I prefer calories I can chew. My food choices are much like yours and I still consider myself to "eat Peat" even though there is no specific protocol, just some foods to avoid in excess like Graycat mentioned. Have you seen Danny Roddy's Facebook page? He has shown tons of meat, egg, seafood, and dairy purchases. Very little in the way of food that is nutritionally-void.

    Peat's food recommendations all fall in line with Paleo/Primal/PHD suggestions. It's just the quantity that differs from person to person. Mexican Coke, gummy bears, and ice cream are not any worse than Paleo recipes that contain almond flour, maple syrup, and butter. In fact, I'd argue that they're better and healthier than those recreations.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Me too.... SUGAR!
    Aaaaw, but me likey sugar, and apparently it likes me back. .

    Okay, I found summarized version (someone had posted on a different forum) of Peat's diet guidelines and I'll post it here.
    Maybe someone can check it out and critique its accuracy.

    (I won't paste it in italics, cause it's harder to read)

    "Okay, so here are the Peat guidelines as best as I have figured out with much help (thank you Lynn, Cathy, Diet F**ked Blog, Matt Stone, Kurt Harris of PāNu, and of course Ray Peat):

    Proteins: Daily protein should be at least 80 grams, preferably 100 if you are working or otherwise active. An egg has about 6 grams, a quart of milk about 32 grams, meat, cheese, and fish are usually about 20% protein, so a pound would be enough for a day. It's important to have fruit or other carbohydrate with the protein for efficient metabolism. Milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish are good protein sources, and potato protein is high in quality, if the potato is very well cooked and eaten with butter or cream. Although potatoes contain only about 2% protein, a kilogram of potato has roughly the protein value of a liter of milk (which is 3% protein), because of its high quality. Unless you are buying eggs from a verified grass-fed, free range source he recommends limiting them to one or two a day, and making sure to have plenty of carbohydrate around the same time.

    Meats like ground beef, steak, liver, and pork chops are rich in cysteine, which “turns off” the thyroid gland as soon as your body uses up it’s glycogen and ideally shouldn't be your main source of protein. Muscle meats such as chicken/turkey breasts should be eaten with the gelatin it comes with, or supplemental gelatin (see below), to balance out an anti-thyroid amino acid called tryptophan (which is also found in whey protein formulations). Traditionally, muscle meats are eaten with the fat, skin and the gelatin that they come with, so this is mostly an issue in first-world countries where we have protein powders and pure muscle meats readily available. Chicken liver contains such a small amount of fat it's okay to have in addition to or instead of beef liver (which should be consumed weekly). Pork or chicken once a week is okay if your metabolic rate (thyroid function) is good. When chicken is stewed, gelatin from the skin is valuable, and much of the fat can be skimmed off. With any of the muscle meats, including fish, gelatin is helpful for balancing the high cysteine, methionine, and tryptophan content. Regarding bacon, Peat says, “The nitrate isn't likely to be a problem if you eat it with orange juice. I fry the bacon to remove some of the fat, and then refry it in coconut oil, to remove most of the PUFA.”

    Fatty fish like salmon and herring should be avoided because their fat content is mostly unsaturated; as a general rule, cold blooded animals like fish tend to produce unsaturated fats while warm blooded animals like cows and pigs tend to produce saturated and monounsaturated fats. Cod and sole are good fish, since they have the marine minerals (especially selenium), but low fat content. Tuna is good as protein, but the fat it contains is highly polyunsaturated; eating once a week, especially with homemade coconut mayo should be safe.of course

    Regarding his recommendation of daily gelatin: For an adult, gelatin can be a major protein in the diet, since the need for cysteine and tryptophan decreases greatly when growth slows. Ox-tail soup (boiled for 4 or 5 hours) and lamb shanks have a good proportion of gelatin. I think most stores have gelatin in one pound packages or bigger, for example Great Lakes gelatin is usually around $11 per pound. If a person eats a large serving of meat, it's probably helpful to have 5–10 grams of gelatin at approximately the same time, so that the amino acids enter the blood stream in balance. Asian grocery stores are likely to sell some of the traditional gelatin-rich foods, such as prepared pig skin and ears and tails, and chicken feet. Although the prepared powdered gelatin doesn't require any cooking, dissolving it in hot water makes it digest a little more quickly. It can be incorporated into custards, mousses, ice cream, soups, sauces, cheese cake, pies, etc., or mixed with fruit juices to make desserts or (with juice concentrate) candies.

    Peat is a big fan of dairy. He prefers milk with no added vitamins, raw if you can get it, but uses standard pasteurized-homogenized when there’s no alternative. He prefers cheese made without enzymes, just animal rennet. He doesn't use yogurt because of the lactic acid and/or lactobacillus. He avoids anything with gums in it, like cream cheese. Ice cream like Haagen Dazs is okay since it has no carageenan or gums like guar/carob bean– these are often found in foods like cream cheese, canned coconut milk, and half-and-half; make sure that the ice cream does not have any vegetable oil in it as some varieties include this. Regarding yogurt, in quantities of an ounce or so, for flavoring, it's o.k., but the lactic acid content isn't good if you are using yogurt as a major source of your protein and calcium; it triggers the inflammatory reactions, leading to fibrosis eventually, and the immediate effect is to draw down the liver's glycogen stores for energy to convert it into glucose. Cottage cheese, that is, milk curds with salt, is very good, if you can find it without additives, but traditional cottage cheese was almost fat-free, so when they make it with whole milk you should watch for other innovations that might not be beneficial.

    Although Peat basically scorns legumes, he said hummus in small amounts isn't nutritionally harmful, though chickpeas and tahini are both allergenic for some people.

    Fats: Best sources are coconut oil and butter; olive oil and macadamia nut oil sparingly. He is a big fan of (refined) coconut oil to stimulate the metabolism. Among nuts and nut oils, macadamia is probably the safest. See the Omega-6 list below for more info.

    Carbohydrates: Have some with every meal to prevent hypoglycemia after eating the proteins.
    Fruit and fruit juices – If you're able to do it, try to consume fresh fruits and fruit juices every day. Orange juice is great because of it’s potassium and magnesium content. Tropical fruits and juices are excellent too. If you don’t have a juicer at home, you can buy pasteurized juices with no additives that say “not from concentrate” on the label. Juices that are from concentrate are made up of mostly added water that is flouridated. Fruits in general are fine (tropical are best), but grapefruit is full of phytoestrogens, so avoid it, and berries are full of small seeds you can't avoid, so it's better to skip them. He recommends avoiding bananas and other starchy-poorly-ripened-industrialized fruits, which includes most apples and pears (when these are ripe, peeled and cooked they are much more nutritious, and safer). Organic dried fruits are fine as long as they are not treated with sulfur dioxide; canned fruits are okay, especially if they are in glass. You can have a small apple and some cheese as a snack occasionally if it doesn't cause any digestive or allergic symptoms—the fat in the cheese is protective against the starch in incompletely ripened fruit.

    Tubers – Potato, yams; occasionally well-cooked grains in the order of best to least desirable: masa harina, white rice or oats, brown rice. The phytic acid in the oats block absorption of much of the calcium; cooking the oats much longer than usual might improve its nutritional value. Canned plain pumpkin if eaten with some fat is okay, but carrots are less starchy for similar effects.

    He recommends eating a raw carrot daily, particularly a raw carrot salad with coconut oil, for both its bowel-protective and an anti-estrogen effect. Summer squash and bamboo shoots are the best cooked vegetables; well cooked kale and broccoli are okay, too. Carrots are best salad. The fiber in whole vegetables helps protect against the effects of the unsaturated fats they contain (in comparison to fruit), which means that juiced vegetables with none of the protective fiber will act as a thyroid inhibitor because of the concentrated PUFAs. There isn’t anything wrong with using vegetables as a smaller part of your diet, but salads and steamed vegetable dishes shouldn’t be the main part of anyone’s diet. He recommends avoiding avocados as they contain so much unsaturated fat that they can be carcinogenic and hepatotoxic (toxic to the liver).

    Beverages: Coffee supports the metabolism but has to be consumed with some sugar or with meal to prevent stress response due to low blood sugar. Because of the tannins in tea, it's important to use either lemon or milk (or cream). The histamine in red wine is a special problem for hypothyroid people, usually it isn't harmful.

    Avoid: PUFAs and soy. PUFAs are found in processed foods, nuts and seeds and their butters, vegetable oils. Also keep in mind that if you have been eating PUFAs in the past, the oil change in your tissues takes up to four years during which your fat stores will be releasing enough PUFAs to cause you some troubles, so it requires some patience and also some skillful means to counteract their effects, like getting some extra vitamin E or a little thyroid to counteract their antithyroid action etc. It all depends on how your metabolism works."
    Last edited by Graycat; 07-23-2013 at 02:06 PM.

  5. #45
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    Continued:

    "Chocolate is okay as long as there are no additives.

    For salty cravings, Peat recommends tortilla chips fried in coconut oil, and chicharrones (pork rinds) with no additive but salt (puffed in hot air). Another snack is popcorn popped on the stove in coconut oil, then salted & buttered; the oil and butter are protective against the starch, but it's harder to digest than tortilla chips or chicharrones.

    Vinegar is a good antiseptic when it's used with raw carrot, but watch for sulfite when using regularly.

    Maple syrup is heated to a fairly high temperature, and this creates some sugar-derived chemicals that can be allergenic and might be toxic.

    Regarding whey protein, Peat says, “Powdered foods that contain tryptophan are extremely susceptible to harmful oxidation, and the best things are removed, for example calcium, lactose, and casein, with its anti-stress properties.”

    Everything else is somewhere in between - it won't kill you if consumed, but unless you are healthy it's better to prefer above-listed foods."


    Good websites to learn more:
    Ray Peat - excellent articles with lots of explanations for his guidelines
    http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/...s-and-oils.html
    http://diet-fucked.blogspot.com/200...de-to-food.html

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    Well said! I eat in a Peat fashion but definitely not liquid- or sugar-based. I eat many of his food recommendations that serve a specific purpose, like you mentioned. A very active and healthy weight individual may utilize a large supply of sugary foods/drinks, but I don't. I prefer calories I can chew. My food choices are much like yours and I still consider myself to "eat Peat" even though there is no specific protocol, just some foods to avoid in excess like Graycat mentioned. Have you seen Danny Roddy's Facebook page? He has shown tons of meat, egg, seafood, and dairy purchases. Very little in the way of food that is nutritionally-void.

    Peat's food recommendations all fall in line with Paleo/Primal/PHD suggestions. It's just the quantity that differs from person to person. Mexican Coke, gummy bears, and ice cream are not any worse than Paleo recipes that contain almond flour, maple syrup, and butter. In fact, I'd argue that they're better and healthier than those recreations.
    Well, yeah. You get the tards who don't research and then claim Peat-ing is a sugar binge, but it's actually the most balanced perspective of food I have ever found.

  7. #47
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    Hey well done Graycat.

    Whatever happened to Kurt Harris? Is he still doing his thing?

  8. #48
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    Well, given that everybody agrees that there really is no one "Peat Diet", how can anyone say that it's good or bad?

    What we have is a giant game of "playing telephone" with the blog interpreting the blog excerpt that was interpreting the blog that was reposting an excerpt of the blog.....

    One thing I can say for sure is that anyone who says wild caught Alaska sockeye salmon is unhealthy is not someone whose dietary recommendations I take seriously.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Well, given that everybody agrees that there really is no one "Peat Diet", how can anyone say that it's good or bad?
    For a start Peat isn't selling anything, so he doesn't need to patent 'The Peat Diet' like Mark has done with Primal(no, nothing against Mark Sisson).

    Secondly, his research and suggestions are entirely contextual.

    Thirdly, not everything needs the label of good or bad. Probably because everyone has different context and providing universal doctrine for everyone isn't helpful. Not at this stage.

    One thing I can say for sure is that anyone who says wild caught Alaska sockeye salmon is unhealthy is not someone whose dietary recommendations I take seriously.
    Then don't. No-one will be insulted unless they have made Peat into some cult figure(they do exist come to think of it).

    How far is Cali from Alaska?
    Last edited by Rocco Hill; 07-23-2013 at 02:39 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    One thing I can say for sure is that anyone who says wild caught Alaska sockeye salmon is unhealthy is not someone whose dietary recommendations I take seriously.
    I'm having a little trouble with the idea that that the gelatin in gummy bears redeems the other chemical additives, or the wholesome, natural cane sugar in Mexican Coke makes the rest of the ingredients pure and healthy.

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