07-27-2013, 02:49 PM
I have definitely noticed a pattern of posters who are very slim and don't seem to do well on VLC. It makes intuitive sense. VLC is all about fat burning and, if you don't have much extra to burn, you are going to be feeling like crap as your body breaks down muscle and other tissue for food.
Originally Posted by patski
On the other hand this is exactly why it works so well for so many people who do have extra padding. When you are doing VLC with extra weight, you can get a mix of dietary fat plus some of the stored fat or fuel. If you are super tall and skinny like Derp, you would have to be chomping on sticks of butter all day just to get enough calories.
Given that ketosis suppresses appetite, I think some people who are very slim inadvertently end up starving themselves on VLC. The negative symptoms that they attribute to lack of carbs could also just be lack of enough food. (Derp regularly using another appetite suppressant, nicotine, complicates the picture even more).
Last edited by Paleobird; 07-27-2013 at 02:52 PM.
07-29-2013, 08:06 AM
Yeah, but I am perfectly plump and VLC makes me really hungry (not to mention feel like I live under water) & I add weight whenever I eat fatty meats, like roast chicken or pork roast. I simply cannot eat small enough quantity on VLC to not gain weight. And, I get really depressed.
Of course, I would sell my soul to be slim, but I doubt that counts
I think a variety of people don't do great on the VLC, and trying a higher carbs clean eating is not the biggest dietary sin.
Last edited by Leida; 07-29-2013 at 08:17 AM.
07-29-2013, 08:29 AM
Meh, I do great on vlc and I am now about 20% bodyfat (50, female, 123, 5'6".) Down from about 30% pre-Primal.
I defintely think it is completely individual. Having spent a fair amount of time on vlc/keto sites/forums, I don't get the generalization that skinny folks don't do well. Some skinny folk don't do well, for sure.
For example, this woman in her 20s does a keto-diet. She has never been obese.
07-29-2013, 08:41 AM
^^ She is smoking hot. She says she's been strict for 2 yrs- >40g.
I found many benefits to doing a keto diet - but with my activity level I just couldn't keep doing it, and yes I found it hard to get over 2000 calories most days. I'm 6'0 and Lean and wasn't coming from being anywhere near overweight. I was never unhealthy on it, but was beggining to find it stressfull and there came a clear moment when I was like 'Carbs, gimme'.
07-29-2013, 08:53 AM
And here's a recent blog post linking to the sites of several non-obese keto-eaters (including me.)
All my organs hurt and I think I
Last edited by Dragonfly; 07-29-2013 at 08:59 AM.
07-29-2013, 01:28 PM
I never said there wasn't room for individual variation, I just said that I had noticed a pattern in MDA posters of very thin people not doing well on VLC. Even people like Otzi who lot a bunch of weight on VLC, then did not feel well or lose any more once they got to a certain level of leanness.
And, Leida, having seen your photos, you are a lot leaner than you think you are. I hate to say this but I think you but you have some body dysmorphia issues going on.
If one were very lean and doing keto too, one would have to take care to really make sure to eat enough. It's certainly possible, it's just that if one were not paying particular attention to it, it would be very easy to under-eat and have no fat stores to make up the difference.
07-29-2013, 01:34 PM
That woman has a lovely figure but she is nowhere near the kind of skinny I'm talking about. 20% is quite healthy. I find that is the optimal point at which I stop losing weight and stabilize.
Originally Posted by Dragonfly
Remember, I did not say keto was only for fat people. I said that if one is *extremely* lean, it might not be such a great idea.
07-29-2013, 02:15 PM
PB, I was responding more to Patski's post. Sorry, I forgot to quote!
Originally Posted by Paleobird
In any case, I do find it interesting that many body builders who are already lean, will do a "cut" with a keto diet. Short-term, of course.
Peter Attia talks about the greater caloric needs of certain folks on a ketogenic diet. Some people seem to ramp up their metabolism when keto.
Last edited by Dragonfly; 07-29-2013 at 02:22 PM.
07-29-2013, 02:49 PM
I think the biggest problem for people who don't do well on vlc due to eating too few calories is the lack of variety. There's only so much isolated fat you can eat before it becomes putrid. If ketosis could be sustained with relative high protein, I think it would work for more people. But alas, ketosis is a VHF (very high fat) therefore indirectly making it a LP diet as well. Constantly minimizing two macros is doable but tough, IMO. For some, the benefits far outweigh these challenges, which is something to be celebrated. How fortunate are we to be able to debate which food plan is more awesome than the next.
07-29-2013, 02:59 PM
Personally, even though I eat very VLC I also have a lot of variety in my diet. I am lucky enough to live where there is ample fresh wild caught seafood and grass fed meats, and organic produce. My personal favorites (even way before Primal) have always been non carby, so I don't feel constrained there. If anything I feel relieved not to feel like I have to eat those healthywholegrains that are supposed to be good for you.
Originally Posted by j3nn
So, if your personal favorites were always carby and you didn't have much imagination or desire to learn to cook, I can see why VLC could cause you to not vary your diet much and therefor run into some nutritional deficiencies.
"isolated fat"? Here again the stereotypes of VLC being people sitting around chewing on seal blubber.