Danny Roddy slams Paleo on Matt Stone's Blog page 2

[homunculus]

I'm really glad I read Ray Peat's stuff, the paleo/primal thing is just all about money now, they won't change their views when faced with contradicting science because they're more concerned with selling this idea and not health.

[Zach]

I'm really glad I read Ray Peat's stuff, the paleo/primal thing is just all about money now, they won't change their views when faced with contradicting science because they're more concerned with selling this idea and not health.

Agreed, paleo has dug too deep of a hole in terms of what it is and isnt. It will get left behind with other fad diets. At least people like Sisson, Nikoley and other big name bloggers have the fortitude to admit mistakes and change based on evidence. Although few things like wheat and refined sugar will always be the cornerstones but at least the low carb fear is starting to dwindle.

Btw Choco, my diet evolved exactly how yours did. Mostly fruit, dairy, little red meat and almost no veg, whole grains, nuts. But i do eat quite a bit of refined grains and legumes.

[Zach]

Oh and Otzi, keep reading Matt and Danny, even if you dont agree with them %100, they have a ton to offer.

[jakey]

a lot of what ray peat writes, and what danny tries to explain, is interesting, but some is so far off the broad scientific consensus (yeah, i know, conventional wisdom), that i feel it behooves him to prove his claims a bit better. rejecting the model of cells with walls and pressure gradients? wow... and for hormones, he looks at really early science and seems to ignore volumes of data we've amassed since then. kinda weird.

i'm also not convinced that a high body temperature and fast heart beat automatically equal health & vitality. that's awfully simplistic.

[otzi]

Danny Roddy did not slam paleo. Danny Roddy supports paleo - he supports what paleo SHOULD BE.

Rather than discussing ways to support the metabolic rate, those that view health from an “evolutionary” lens are finding new exciting ways to slow the life process.

For example:

Have you ever filled your bathtub with ice to engage in “cold thermogenesis”?
Have you ever “felt great” on a 24-hour “intermittent” fast?
Have you ever added a stick of grass-fed butter to a cup of coffee?
Have you ever called fructose “f#%ktose”?
Have you ever nodded your head in agreement with anything Robert Lustig or Gary Taubes has ever said?

If you answered, “yes” to any of the above, you may be an unknowing participant in a phenomenon I have dubbed, “The Race to Torpor!”

Let's break this down and see if he supports even Mark Sisson's version of Paleo:

Have you ever filled your bathtub with ice to engage in “cold thermogenesis”? Mark likes this in some contexts. I've done it occasionally, helps with delayed onset muscle soreness and maybe helps with Brown Fat.

Have you ever “felt great” on a 24-hour “intermittent” fast? I certainly have, do it all the time! Kind of a cornerstone to Marks PB.

Have you ever added a stick of grass-fed butter to a cup of coffee? Drinking it right now! Lots of us doing it. Makes a great breakfast on a cold morning.

Have you ever called fructose “f#%ktose”? No, but I will from now on--that's a good one! Mark says we should limit it for various reasons. It's what got a lot of us in trouble.

Have you ever nodded your head in agreement with anything Robert Lustig or Gary Taubes has ever said? Well, we had a big debate here last week about the Carbohydrate-Insulin Hypothesis of Obesity, we use their names a lot and they both have impressive works to back most of their claims, so I think we may have all at least nodded once when someone said "all calories are not created equal".

So, there you have it,,,we are all headed to "Torpor" wherever that is. I think it's where bears go to hibernate. But I can guarantee my life will not improve simply by adding strained OJ, salt, sugar, and donating blood until my temperature increases and my resting heart rate raises to 85.

[YogaBare]

The Danny Roddy thread that was going here a few months ago was dynamite. I'm still reading his blog. He offers a new perspective and, while I don't subscribe to everything he says, it's shown me that you can prove or disprove anything with science, so it's important to keep an open mind and experiment with what feels right for you.

[otzi]

The Danny Roddy thread that was going here a few months ago was dynamite. I'm still reading his blog. He offers a new perspective and, while I don't subscribe to everything he says, it's shown me that you can prove or disprove anything with science, so it's important to keep an open mind and experiment with what feels right for you.

Yep! I have read all of his blogs and followed many links. I think the problem with Danny Roddy and Matt Stone is that they are working off the back of Dr. Ray Peat, a kind of outlier in the medical profession. Peat works with patients and has had success doing things like increasing sugar, salt, changing lipids, and paying attention to iron, calcium, and the like.

When you try to apply Peats work to a population, it will fail miserably. People have a hard time following paleo/Primal Blueprint because they are too lazy to make bone broth and don't like liver--how do you think they will fare on a diet that makes you strain orange juice, make homemade icecream, and eat a special carrot salad every day? Peat's recommended eating pattern is way bizarre and probably should only be used by his patients based on labs and bio-markers.

[Derpamix]

Yep! I have read all of his blogs and followed many links. I think the problem with Danny Roddy and Matt Stone is that they are working off the back of Dr. Ray Peat, a kind of outlier in the medical profession. Peat works with patients and has had success doing things like increasing sugar, salt, changing lipids, and paying attention to iron, calcium, and the like.

When you try to apply Peats work to a population, it will fail miserably. People have a hard time following paleo/Primal Blueprint because they are too lazy to make bone broth and don't like liver--how do you think they will fare on a diet that makes you strain orange juice, make homemade icecream, and eat a special carrot salad every day? Peat's recommended eating pattern is way bizarre and probably should only be used by his patients based on labs and bio-markers.

Would probably help if you knew what you were talking about. Not only is liver and brone broth a Peat-friendly food, but the special carrot salad is nothing but grated carrots in coconut oil and vinegar. Straining OJ is not hard, and you can even use commercial orange juice. Hell, he even uses frozen concentrate OJ himself. Ice cream is fine if it doesn't contain gums, additives, et el. Haagen Daz for example, which I eat liberally.

How hard is this diet(mine for example when I started at first):

4 quarts of milk, 2 quarts of orange juice, 10oz or more of cheese, 1-2lbs of dates, 28oz of haagen daz daily, lots of salt, some bakers chocolate, 8oz of beef liver every week, butter, coconut oil, coffee, supplemental sugar(in coffee, milk, orange juice, and even on my cheese) gummy bears, mexican coke, blackstrap molasses.

I don't even cook any of that stuff

[BestBetter]

When you try to apply Peats work to a population, it will fail miserably. People have a hard time following paleo/Primal Blueprint because they are too lazy to make bone broth and don't like liver--how do you think they will fare on a diet that makes you strain orange juice, make homemade icecream, and eat a special carrot salad every day? Peat's recommended eating pattern is way bizarre and probably should only be used by his patients based on labs and bio-markers.

I agree with this in part. I personally can't bring myself to consume a mostly liquid diet of milk and OJ. However, I think this is a situation where you can take the elements that ARE doable and incorporate them into your lifestyle IF there is a need.

If someone is eating a paleo diet, or even a SAD diet, and they are happy and healthy, no one is saying they need to change it.

I see Peat/Roddy recommendations as 'next steps' for people, like me, who are watching their health decline on a paleo diet.

Like I said, I could never bring myself to consume a liquid milk/OJ diet, but increasing my starches and sugars while decreasing my fat (among other small changes) has made a GIGANTIC improvement in my health.

I agree that having a faster heartbeat and body temperature are not the ONLY indications of good health, but for me, as someone with a body temperature that was approaching a corpse, and a super low pulse, I didn't even have the energy to get off the couch most days (But hey, no blood sugar spikes!) That's certainly not the picture of good health.

[Derpamix]

You don't need to consume a mostly liquid diet. Cheese can replace milk for calcium, tropical fruit can replace OJ, etc. Solid foods have their place in a Peat diet as well.