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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    Overnutrition and lack of exercise. I've seen at least one study where insulin sensitivity was at least partially restored in Type 2 diabetics with a low calorie diet. It reduced both liver and pancreas fat.

    Here it is, full study: Reversal of type 2 diabetes: normalisation of beta cell function in association with decreased pancreas and liver triacylglycerol
    But haven't some of the low carb exponents like Eric Westman, Steve Phinney & Jeff Volek, the Eades etc, had similar results with the low carb approach?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    The reason your fasting blood sugar and A1C improved with the high fat diet is because 1) the typical diet prescribed for diabetes is bullshit, and 2) you bypassed your glucose metabolism entirely. I had my diabetic father go on a ketogenic diet and his A1C dropped from 12 to 6. It wasn't because it restored his insulin sensitivity but because he wasn't eating any glucose that could sit around in the blood and cause damage.
    That makes perfect sense...I have been led to believe that glucose=bad, glucose=high insulin, high insulin=insulin resistance.

    But now I'm questioning that..isn't this the source of the whole 'safe starch' debate?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureFunctionalFitness View Post
    But haven't some of the low carb exponents like Eric Westman, Steve Phinney & Jeff Volek, the Eades etc, had similar results with the low carb approach?
    I have no idea. Do you know of any studies? I've seen several people say their diabetes is essentially cured on low carb, but they still can't eat potatoes. Well, if you didn't restore insulin resistance, you didn't cure diabetes.

    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    But now I'm questioning that..isn't this the source of the whole 'safe starch' debate?
    Yes it is.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    I have no idea. Do you know of any studies? I've seen several people say their diabetes is essentially cured on low carb, but they still can't eat potatoes. Well, if you didn't restore insulin resistance, you didn't cure diabetes.



    Yes it is.
    I think that the consensus from those people is that you can put Type II diabetes into remission, but if those beta cells are badly damaged, you are never going to get them back to functionality. One of the podcasts on Jimmy Moores site had Westman, I think, saying that a diabetic patient of his was clear of symptoms under 30grms CHO per day, if he went over, the diabetes came back.

    Will dig some stuff up.

  5. #35
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    here's a little tidbit

    theheart.org: trusted cardiology news and opinions

    Study Source
    Westman EC, Yancy WS Jr, Mavropoulos JC, Marquart M, McDuffie JR. The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low-glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus. Nutr Metab 2008; DOI:10.1186/1743-7075-5-36. Available at: http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/36.
    Last edited by PureFunctionalFitness; 12-15-2012 at 10:42 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    I have no idea. Do you know of any studies? I've seen several people say their diabetes is essentially cured on low carb, but they still can't eat potatoes. Well, if you didn't restore insulin resistance, you didn't cure diabetes.
    This whole thread kind of gives credence to the "Potato Diet" craze...as it shows that most people who have tried it must not be 'insulin resistant'.

    Good discussion, guys!

  7. #37
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    That's the rub, though. He said his "symptoms" were controlled unless he ate carbohydrates. What do you want to bet the symptom was hyperglycemia, and it was "controlled" because he wasn't eating any glucose? And it's hard to say how extensively beta cells are damaged in any one person. The diabetics in the study I linked had insulin sensitivity restored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Science
    Forty-nine (58.3%) participants completed the study. Both interventions led to improvements in hemoglobin A1c, fasting glucose, fasting insulin, and weight loss. The LCKD group had greater improvements in hemoglobin A1c (-1.5% vs. -0.5%, p = 0.03), body weight (-11.1 kg vs. -6.9 kg, p = 0.008), and high density lipoprotein cholesterol (+5.6 mg/dL vs. 0 mg/dL, p < 0.001) compared to the LGID group. Diabetes medications were reduced or eliminated in 95.2% of LCKD vs. 62% of LGID participants (p < 0.01).
    All this study was measuring was glycemic control, not insulin resistance. A low carbohydrate diet is always going to win in that regard because, as I said, if you don't eat any glucose, there's none to hang around in your blood to glycate proteins, leading to a lower A1C. If both groups had to take an OGTT at the end of the study, you would find them both very much insulin resistant.

    Ketogenic diets are good at masking the symptoms of diabetes, but it doesn't cure it.

    I have to start my day now. Hope this doesn't turn into a shit storm while I'm gone.
    Last edited by Timthetaco; 12-15-2012 at 01:15 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureFunctionalFitness View Post
    here's a little tidbit

    theheart.org: trusted cardiology news and opinions

    Study Source
    Westman EC, Yancy WS Jr, Mavropoulos JC, Marquart M, McDuffie JR. The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low-glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus. Nutr Metab 2008; DOI:10.1186/1743-7075-5-36. Available at: Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low-glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus.
    From link:
    The key point, Westman continues, is that diabetes is "fixable." That notion has already been demonstrated in the bariatric-surgery literature, he points out. "This is a noninvasive approach, it's not quite as fast, not as drastic, and not as risky as surgery, but it still really reconfirms that with diet and weight change, diabetes is reversible."
    You know, I always forget about bariatric surgery--it cures T2D, right away, nothing to do with weightloss or macros, just cures it by severing the vagus or something--shows there is more going on than we think.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Good discussion, guys!
    Fascinating even.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    From link:

    You know, I always forget about bariatric surgery--it cures T2D, right away, nothing to do with weightloss or macros, just cures it by severing the vagus or something--shows there is more going on than we think.
    New evidence is showing relapse in T2D in a large number of patients. While 68.2% of patients had a complete remission of T2D following surgery, 35.1% of the people who were "cured" experienced relapse within 5 years.

    A Multisite Study of Long-term Remission and Relapse of Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus Following Gastric Bypass - Springer
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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