Dumb argument with my friend... Thoughts? page 5

[jaczor]

Seriously, how can you offend the chef and the waitress from ordering YOUR food in the way that YOU want it? If I go to a burger joint and order my burger without the bun or remove it before eating it, should expect the waiter and chef to be offended too??? Or is it just because we're talking about vietnamese cousine?

I could understand that they would get mad if I ask them to completely change the dish (although, they could just say that it can't be changed instead of getting offended), but to get offended over changing the ammount of noodles and meat on my soup?? come on...

However, I do agree with you on enjoying food ocationally without getting hung up on wether it's primal or not, but I do save those for food that I really crave or that can't be made paleo without detracting from it, if I enjoy pho without the noodles then I sure as heck am not going to waste a cheat meal just because it "should have noodles" in it.

I love the 80-20 rule .

[NowhereMan]

I think basically every reply on this thread missed the most important point. Nobody should try to force you to eat a certain way, but that isn't exactly what I'd call this. It's just a culture mismatch.

Eastern and western cultures have different ideas and paradigms that are sometimes so deeply ingrained that we assume they are universal. Specifically, western culture is very focused on the self. When you go to a restaurant, their job is to give you what you want because you are there to fulfill yourself. Some eastern cultures (although I'm not sure about Vietnamese) view it differently and there is, for lack of a better term, a "right way" to do things. This often happens with food and drink.

I remember hearing a radio piece about a woman's visit to Japan where she wanted her green tea sweetened with honey...
"Green tea is not drunk that way"
"But that's how I like mine"
"Ah, you have been doing it wrong. We will teach you how to prepare it properly"

So, when you said you'd go get Pho with him, it's likely he had something very specific in mind. Just like when you say you'll drink green tea with your Japanese friend, they don't expect you to put honey in it. You weren't wrong, except to assume that their culture is like ours. It's a common mistake that I've made a lot when spending time with my asian friends/girlfriend.

So swallow your pride and apologize, even though you've done nothing wrong. Admit that you didn't understand his culture, explain yours, and offer in the future to try things his way. Or at the least be mindful of what he means when he invites you somewhere.

[JoanieL]

When my great grandmother made her version of "pizza," it wasn't like anything we think of as pizza. Sometimes there wasn't any tomato sauce on it. Just greens, olive oil, and some parmesan. If I got my panties in a wad every time someone referred to mainstream pizza as pizza, it would be stupid.

However, I do occasionally feel a tightening of that wad when people think chain store pizza is good (i.e. Domino's, etc.).

OP, your friend may have a stick lodged in a very uncomfortable place.

[Drumroll]

I think basically every reply on this thread missed the most important point. Nobody should try to force you to eat a certain way, but that isn't exactly what I'd call this. It's just a culture mismatch.

Eastern and western cultures have different ideas and paradigms that are sometimes so deeply ingrained that we assume they are universal. Specifically, western culture is very focused on the self. When you go to a restaurant, their job is to give you what you want because you are there to fulfill yourself. Some eastern cultures (although I'm not sure about Vietnamese) view it differently and there is, for lack of a better term, a "right way" to do things. This often happens with food and drink.

I remember hearing a radio piece about a woman's visit to Japan where she wanted her green tea sweetened with honey...
"Green tea is not drunk that way"
"But that's how I like mine"
"Ah, you have been doing it wrong. We will teach you how to prepare it properly"

So, when you said you'd go get Pho with him, it's likely he had something very specific in mind. Just like when you say you'll drink green tea with your Japanese friend, they don't expect you to put honey in it. You weren't wrong, except to assume that their culture is like ours. It's a common mistake that I've made a lot when spending time with my asian friends/girlfriend.

So swallow your pride and apologize, even though you've done nothing wrong. Admit that you didn't understand his culture, explain yours, and offer in the future to try things his way. Or at the least be mindful of what he means when he invites you somewhere.

I would do that, except the guy's been living stateside his whole life. He knows and understands our culture just fine. In fact, I'd bet he knows it better than I do. He's certainly had more success navigating than I have!

I'm honestly shocked by his behavior, but I guess I shouldn't be? I don't know at this point. I mean, it was SO unlike him in any way that I've known him to be before.

I guess his Asian culture could have been at play, but it seems to me, the fact that it was in particular, his food culture may be the more likely explanation. I don't know what it is about food but people seem to defend their food culture stronger than almost anything else. I should have known better than to second guess it.

I've noticed more and more since going primal, just how much of a sacred cow food is to some people, and how easy it is to offend them even with three simple words, "no thank you."

[Damiana]

In comparison to other Asian cultures, like Japan or china, we Vietnamese are considerably less formal. My guess is that your friend got so analyst because he wanted to show you an authentic experience and you resisted it and tried to do things your own way. I get pissy too whenever I take a friend out for sushi and the moron ends up ordering teriyaki chicken.

[joelwlcx]

I would have beat him with his own bowl of soup for reacting like that. What a dick.

[NowhereMan]

I would do that, except the guy's been living stateside his whole life. He knows and understands our culture just fine. In fact, I'd bet he knows it better than I do. He's certainly had more success navigating than I have!

Ah, gotcha. I was confused because your friend is what I'd call "Vietnamese American" rather than "Vietnamese". I'm just mindful of that difference because it means a lot to the international people I know (mostly Chinese). Regardless, I still think my last paragraph of advice holds, just replace the word "culture" with the word "expectations".

[Drumroll]

In comparison to other Asian cultures, like Japan or china, we Vietnamese are considerably less formal. My guess is that your friend got so analyst because he wanted to show you an authentic experience and you resisted it and tried to do things your own way. I get pissy too whenever I take a friend out for sushi and the moron ends up ordering teriyaki chicken.

This is not my first experience with pho and I am fairly certain he knew this. So it wasn't like "hey, I'm going to take you out for your first experience with some real pho."

In fact, his mother makes some awesome homemade pho to quote him. Now if his MOTHER had made it, I might not have asked for it sans noodles... I like living.

[bloodorchid]

ask him wtf his deal was

[Drumroll]

ask him wtf his deal was

Pho translates as "noodle broth" so a broth without noodles CANNOT be pho. That's basically what he kept saying over and over again. When I tried to ask him what the big deal was, I just kept getting this whole "it's part of Vietnamese culture, just accept it and stop trying to change it" message.

Calm down dude, I'm not trying to alter Vietnamese culture.