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Thread: low cortisol and low testosterone, body comp page 2

  1. #11
    jonascarlsson's Avatar
    jonascarlsson is offline Junior Member
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    Hello Primalsun,

    have you considered hypogonadism?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    You guys are off your rocker if you would send a 19 year old male with clinically low testosterone levels to a ND before a MD. Of course a GP wont di the prescriptions, he will send him to a Endo which is where he needs to go. I mean "nutrient absorption in gut causing weak adrenals"? That sounds pretty quacky to me. Plus if this kid has insurance, go get the real stuff instead of wasting thousands of dollars. NDs can be just as corrupt or worse when it comes to unnesseary prescriptions.
    Yeah, Zach. I'm afraid the doctor bashing has become almost a knee jerk reaction around here. Yes, there are some who are CW idiots and should retire. That doesn't mean all of them are like that. The same for naturopaths. Some are great and some just want to push the supplements the same as the doctors are accused of doing with the meds.

    Doctors (the real ones) have a lot of knowledge and experience. Naturopaths have a different knowledge set. What is wrong with using both?

  3. #13
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    Neckhammer is online now Senior Member
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    I have no problem with the "use both" approach if thats how people wish to proceed. I do take issue with the "real doctor" talk though. Any doctor that is licensed by their state to diagnose and treat patients need to be evaluated as individuals and have their merits judged based on their thoroughness and ability to keep up with the latest models of treatment (MD, DO, DC in all 50 states and ND's in many). Medical doctors can be great or lousy....same for each and every other doctor group. None should get a free pass or automatically be dismissed.

    In my area there are a few doctors that I readily would send someone to for different issues. There are two chiropractors, two osteopaths, one medical, and one nurse practitioner that are on my "go to" list for their particular strengths. And of this group you would likely be surprised which ones excel at which areas. For instance the nurse practitioner runs a women's clinic that specializes in thyroid and other endocrine disorders that she treats first with lifestyle modifications and then with bioidentical hormones when necessary.

    That said I thought the OP already had gone the medical route? I personally like second and third opinions in any significant health issue that you have decided to get help with anyhow. Once the initial tests are run its a fairly easy enough thing to get a copy of the results and set up consultations with other doctors to find out what they might recommend as far as future testing or treatment.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 12-11-2012 at 11:14 AM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Yeah, Zach. I'm afraid the doctor bashing has become almost a knee jerk reaction around here. Yes, there are some who are CW idiots and should retire. That doesn't mean all of them are like that. The same for naturopaths. Some are great and some just want to push the supplements the same as the doctors are accused of doing with the meds.

    Doctors (the real ones) have a lot of knowledge and experience. Naturopaths have a different knowledge set. What is wrong with using both?
    Nothing at all wrong with using both. A ND would be great for general fatigue or subclinical stuff that a MD cant or wont try and figure out. BUT when you are talking about big red flags like young men with clinically low test, that requires specialization.

    A quick example. My friends boyfriend was diagnosed with thyroid cancer at age of 29. Now instead of getting the surgery that three seperate doctors recommended, including a Mayo Clinic Endo, he went to a ND and is currently trying to cure it with the Gaston treatment. Coffee enemas, tons of supps and thousands of dollars. Insanity.

  5. #15
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalsun View Post
    So I recently went to the doctor for lab work and it turns out I have low testosterone and low cortisol. I'm a 19 yr old male and she said the testosterone levels were that of an aging man. She is a naturopath.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Medical doctors can be great or lousy....same for each and every other doctor group. None should get a free pass or automatically be dismissed.

    That said I thought the OP already had gone the medical route? I personally like second and third opinions in any significant health issue that you have decided to get help with anyhow.
    No. See above. Otherwise I agree with you. Naturopaths can be very useful. So can MD's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Nothing at all wrong with using both. A ND would be great for general fatigue or subclinical stuff that a MD cant or wont try and figure out. BUT when you are talking about big red flags like young men with clinically low test, that requires specialization.

    A quick example. My friends boyfriend was diagnosed with thyroid cancer at age of 29. Now instead of getting the surgery that three seperate doctors recommended, including a Mayo Clinic Endo, he went to a ND and is currently trying to cure it with the Gaston treatment. Coffee enemas, tons of supps and thousands of dollars. Insanity.
    As a cancer survivor, I couldn't agree with you more. All the threads touting the latest "miracle cure" and advising people to "fire their oncologists" really get my goat. Like that Italian doctor who keeps telling people that cancer is a fungus (Yeahright.) and that the cure is baking soda. Snake oil at its finest.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 12-11-2012 at 12:06 PM.

  6. #16
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    As someone (much older) than the OP, and who suffers from low Testosterone, sometimes the options can be very limited. First, if exogenous T is indicated, you need a doc who can legally prescribe it. Then, you need to find one willing to prescribe it, which can be really difficult. Then, even if the doc will prescribe it, they still need to know what they are doing, to get the levels up and steady, without wreaking havoc on the rest of the HPTA.

    It took me visits to a number of docs before I finally found someone willing to put in the time and effort to find a solution. This doc was outside of my insurance, but he's been worth every penny.

    But, the OP does need to see someone who can get to the root cause of the problem and determine a reasonable path back to health. Even though a total T of just over 300 is normal for some labs, it's definitely not normal for a young male, no matter what a doc might try to tell you.

  7. #17
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    I'm going to go ahead and clarify some things, as it seems i may have started a little battle over here. OK, so yes, my doctor is a "naturopath," but please let me explain what this means. I feel for some of you, this may conjure an image up of a hippie trying to get me to eat raw herbs and meditate to fix my woes. However, this is completely false. She actually refused to give me any supplements or advice until we get back a more complete blood work lab. I asked her if I should start "testrovita" which is a medicinal supplement that aids your body in producing testosterone. Her response was "I could let you do that, but then how would we find out WHY you're having issues with low testosterone in the first place?" She had similar responses for my low cortisol issues. She's made it extremely clear that she isn't trying to treat symptoms, she's trying to figure out why all of this is happening in the first place and THEN see what she can do to fix the root cause. If she can't fix the root cause, that's when I'll start looking at "regular" doctors and endos. I have confidence she'll be just as effective if not more effective at figuring out the CAUSE behind this mess as any other doctor.

    Also, I've had so many bad experiences with MDs in the past that I'm hesitant to go that route just yet. This isn't to say that all doctors are a bad idea, but in my experience "Take this pill. If that pill does this to you, then take this one too" has been the norm. I hope I'm not offending anyone reading this, but its just my experience.

    Finally, I think this thread has been a little derailed, because my main question was whether or not low testosterone, and low cortisol, could negatively impact my body composition goals. Thanks to all those who have given their input, and to anyone else who would like to just further into this question.

  8. #18
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    Back on topic...

    Testosterone is necessary to build muscle. So it seems logical to me that those who have issues with low testosterone would also have difficulty building muscle. Doesn't mean you should give up the lifting though, as that can certainly help your efforts to rebuild healthy testosterone levels tremendously.

    And since cortisol is catabolic, have lower cortisol might off-set the effect of the low testosterone to some extent? I'm no expert here, just going off of the limited info I know about muscle building as it relates to the two hormones in question.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    Back on topic...

    Testosterone is necessary to build muscle. So it seems logical to me that those who have issues with low testosterone would also have difficulty building muscle. Doesn't mean you should give up the lifting though, as that can certainly help your efforts to rebuild healthy testosterone levels tremendously.

    And since cortisol is catabolic, have lower cortisol might off-set the effect of the low testosterone to some extent? I'm no expert here, just going off of the limited info I know about muscle building as it relates to the two hormones in question.
    Thanks Drumroll,
    No plans to quit lifting here, just frustration that I don't think I'm getting all that I should be out of the lifting I'm doing. Also, while cortisol is catabolic, low cortisol is actually just as bad as high cortisol. The symptoms are basically the same : difficulty losing fat, fatigue, mood swings, etc.

  10. #20
    jkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    You guys are off your rocker if you would send a 19 year old male with clinically low testosterone levels to a ND before a MD. Of course a GP wont di the prescriptions, he will send him to a Endo which is where he needs to go. I mean "nutrient absorption in gut causing weak adrenals"? That sounds pretty quacky to me. Plus if this kid has insurance, go get the real stuff instead of wasting thousands of dollars. NDs can be just as corrupt or worse when it comes to unnesseary prescriptions.
    You are going off a lot of assumptions instead of checking on facts. ND's are absolutely doctors. In many states, they can prescribe pharmaceuticals. Have you ever bothered to look at the ND curriculum? They have just as much A&P, organ systems, biochemistry, etc. as MD's, nearly as much training in pharmacology and hundreds of hours more in nutrition, neutraceuticals, and herbs. You can look at one college here. There are even ND's that special in endocrinology. If you actually read scientific literature, you'd know that leaky gut is accepted in conventional science. I'll do a kindergarten flow for you: leaky gut > high inflammation > high cortisol production > depleted adrenals and down regulated cortisol receptors.

    Now, OP, do I think this is the only cause of your low testosterone? No. You may have misunderstood your doc in that this may be baseline treatment to get your endocrine system back to optimal functioning and then see where your levels are.
    Last edited by jkr; 12-11-2012 at 06:54 PM.

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