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Thread: Glycogen is maintained and replenished during ketosis. page 2

  1. #11
    Zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scientist View Post
    I'm not sure if you mean "early aging" to say that their skin/faces look worn and old, or something else. It seems like this might be the extreme temperatures they lived with, but I don't have hard evidence to back that up.

    The glucose content in meat/liver is negligible.
    Yes weather might have had much to do with it as well. That right there is something to think a out though. The only race that has survived on a true ketogenic diet also had to contend with year round temps below freezing. Burning fat might actually be beneficial in that climate. Many dog sledders and people who travel to the poles eat a very high fat diet. That said, if you arent replicating the environmet, replicating the diet could very well be harmful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scientist View Post
    I would only strongly recommend ketosis for someone looking to loose a lot of weight. Beyond that, there is really no evidence speaking to its long-term benefits for any application (other than childhood epilepsy). I am trying it out to see if I can lose a stubborn 10 lbs that I have never been able to get rid of. I think everyone jsut needs to run an experiment for themselves.
    Yes. Ultimately, I think the individual has to manipulate their macros to their needs. Trial and error is the only way to find out what is true on the personal level.

    So.. (tongue-in-cheek) have you considered the potato hack for your last stubborn pounds?
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Yes weather might have had much to do with it as well. That right there is something to think a out though. The only race that has survived on a true ketogenic diet also had to contend with year round temps below freezing. Burning fat might actually be beneficial in that climate. Many dog sledders and people who travel to the poles eat a very high fat diet. That said, if you arent replicating the environmet, replicating the diet could very well be harmful.
    Not true - the Bison Peoples (Lakota, Shoshone, Cheyenne, Blackfeet, etc.) ate very little in the way of fruits and vegetables. They ate bison meat and fat, with occasional other meats like antelope. Their history and diet is well documented by the early plains explorers from the US and Canada.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scientist View Post
    I would only strongly recommend ketosis for someone looking to loose a lot of weight. Beyond that, there is really no evidence speaking to its long-term benefits for any application (other than childhood epilepsy). I am trying it out to see if I can lose a stubborn 10 lbs that I have never been able to get rid of. I think everyone jsut needs to run an experiment for themselves.
    Not just childhood epilepsy. Adult epilepsy as well. Google Johns Hopkins + ketosis for lots of interesting info.
    Ketosis is also known to help with many neurological conditions such as ADHD, depression, and to help with the elevated inter-cranial pressure suffered by our own dear Cori here on this board.
    There is some speculation, unproven as yet, that a ketogenic diet could stave off or even prevent dementia.

    All this is not to say that you have to be suffering from a major disorder in order to benefit from ketosis. It is not right for everybody but there is no reason not to give it a try if you would like.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Yes weather might have had much to do with it as well. That right there is something to think a out though. The only race that has survived on a true ketogenic diet also had to contend with year round temps below freezing. Burning fat might actually be beneficial in that climate. Many dog sledders and people who travel to the poles eat a very high fat diet. That said, if you aren't replicating the environmet, replicating the diet could very well be harmful.
    The inuit were likely not ketogenic. They appeared to have had adaptations that kept them out of ketosis and made them more efficient at manufacturing glucose.

  6. #16
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    I saw an interview on TV with that Dr. Phinney who just wrote the latest low-carb books. He is normal weight (looked rather thin) and says he's been in ketosis for 6 years--continually with no carb cycling. He's also a runner. He claims that ketosis is a positive state for the body, and he has never felt better or been healthier.

    I don't measure ketosis, but I typically eat about 20g of carbs a day because I'm extremely carb sensitive, and this is the best way to manage my weight. I'm 71 and also have never been healthier in my life. It may be an individual thing--i.e., the fact that I am so carb sensitive may mean that my body works best on limited carbs.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    Is perpetual gluconeogenesis very stressful to the body (and mind) in the long-term?
    When blood sugar gets low glucagon is produced. This promotes gluconeogenesis and happens before blood sugar drops low enough to trigger increased cortisol. Thats basically biochem text book stuff, but there is a whole article on it here :


    The Ketogenic Diet for Health: Ketogenic Diets, Cortisol, and Stress: Part I — Gluconeogenesis.


    I would think that if your activity level was vastly outside the parameters of your ability to produce glucose via gluconeogenesis (like HIT 2x/day or something) then that could be stressful, but lets face it....a program like that is not likely to be healthful anyway and your probably willing to sacrifice a bit of health for athletic ability. But I'm just speculating.

  8. #18
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    Read Vilhjalmur Stefansson's book The Fat of the Land. Very little discussion of ketosis or gluconeogenesis, but lots of discussion and examples of the healthfulness of a diet lacking anything except lean meat and fat. Not just healthy enough but actually superior health compared to mixed diets. It's really very fascinating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scientist View Post
    I was doing some reading and stumbled across this rather old, but very interesting paper. The idea is simple: they put rats on a ketogenic diet (surprisingly, real meat and vegetables) and had some train (running) and some not. Liver and muscle glycogen were examined before and after exercise (running).
    The study was made on rats, what relevance do you think these results will have for human athletes?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Scientist View Post
    Clearly glycogen stores can be replenished during ketosis after exercise, and having been on an exercise regimen makes it happen for efficiently.
    If replenishing glycogen stores with eating fat was superior or equal to carbs wouldn’t some of the top athletes have used this to win over athletes loading on carbs? To get top results in many disciplines an athlete need to be “supercompensated” and I have still never heard that someone got supercompensated on fat and proteins only...

  10. #20
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    different people will have different abilities when it comes to gluconeogenesis. some people's ability to produce glucose will be more or less robust than others. everyone will be able to produce enough glucose to refill liver glycogen - or you'd be dead. but the idea that your muscle glycogen stores will remain full on a ketogenic diet is fantasy.

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