Leangains vs CBL: when's the optimal time to eat carbs in training days? page

[Animaleater]

I do Leangains 16/8 IF currently, training at 11am, eating at 12pm and 7pm.

My question is when should one eat carbohydrate for optimal glycogen replenishment AND bodyfat reduction? Does it matter for the purpose of bodyfat reduction BELOW 10%?

The two main protocols I'd like to compare are Leangains and Carb Backloading.

Leangains focuses on fasted training midday for optimal body fat burning.

CBL focuses on optimal hormonal timing of evening training and night carb loading.

So, when should we train, and when should we eat carbs, to optimally shed bodyfat, as well most efficiently absorb carbs and replenish glycogen?

Is there truly a glycogen window where carbs are absorbed by muscles more completely and efficiently when taken immediately post training? Or will any time that day after training suffice?

Is there a real advantage to non insulin mediated glucose uptake and training induced tGLUT
translocation, whereby carbs are preferentially and most efficiently absorbed by muscle and not fat or other tissues when one eats carbs immediately post workout?

Which scenario will burn bodyfat and store carbs into muscle best:

1) Leangains midday fasted training followed by a lunch of half of the days carb/protein totals immediately post training and an identical dinner

2) Leangains midday fasted training followed by a lunch of all of the days carbs and half of the days protein totals immediately post training and for dinner the remainder of the days protein

3) Leangains midday fasted training followed by lunch of half of the days protein totals immediately post training and a dinner of all the days carb plus the remainder of the days protein

4) Lunch of half of daily protein totals followed by CBL afternoon/evening training and all the days carbs plus the remainder of protein

Through personal intuitive experience, I feel my body best absorbs carbs immediately post exercise, and later that day it feels less efficient.

Leangains focus on fasted training midday for bodyfat burning seems attractive. Eating some carbs PWO and more at dinner on training days has given me good results.

But I'm wondering if eating all my carbs PWO at lunch would be better absorbed.

Conversely, I'm also wondering if eating only protein and a little fat PWO will continue fat burning all day AND take advantage of the night time carb loading advantage advocated by CBL and many studies saying it reduces bodyfat and gives a positive hormonal effect. My concern here is that I'd be missing the advantage of higher carb absorption efficiently when eating them immediately PWO.

Lastly, I can't train afternoon/evening so the CBL late training and carb load nighttime immediately PWO isn't feasible now, but I'd like opinions comparing it to my above scenarios.

[Ripped]

Isocaloric studies comparing different meal timings, frequencies, and macros, all yield the same results as far as fat loss goes. So it IS all about calories!!! And therefore everything you just discussed is complete nonsense.

Dieting is hard enough. You'd be much better off focusing on a model that works best for you and that you can adhere to. So here is what I would recommend:
1. If you want to be strict, count calories. But that should be as strict as you get.
2. Base your plan on what gives you the most energy for your workouts.
3. Base your plan on what gives you the most satisfaction and is easy to adhere to.

The above should take some personal experimentation and developing intuition. Personally I prefer working out in the morning first to get it out of the way. Also, I take caffeine for my workouts, which isn't good if done too late.

Another thing to note is that the muscles are fueled by glycogen. So it's better to to have them filled prior to working out such as the day before. For that same reason, the idea of replenishing glycogen after the workout is retarded. If you only lift weights and don't do a lot of activity otherwise, you aren't going to deplete your muscles of glycogen anyways. For that reason I would only bother eating carbs after my workout for other and more simple reasons such as "I'm hungry and that's when I eat anyways".

[Zach]

I think he was asking more about optimal times for carbs and less about fat loss. Also i agree that fasted training after an extended fast is less then optimal but there are very good reasons for consuming CHO PWO.

As for the OP's question. I think optimally you would want to train around 2-4pm after a day of fasting. Pre workout have a small amount of protein and a decent amount of carbs. About 30 minutes PWO i would have another protein/carb meal similar to the first. Then about an hour later eat the bulk of your calories and bulk of your carbs. Several hours later have the rest of your cals. Basically it would look like this.

1:30pm 30g pro (10 BCAA)/90g CHO
2:00pm workout
3:30pm 30g pro/90g cho
4:30pm Main meal
8:00pm Last meal

This in my opinion would be optimal for muscle and strength gains while minimizing fat gain or similarly muscle sparing, strength gain with fat loss. On non workout days, take out the pre and post workout, eat lighter carb on the 2 meals and make up the cals on pro/fat.

[otzi]

I say it all depends on the OP. If he is 200lbs overweight the answer will be different than if he is at 12% bodyfat and really trying to get ripped.

It sounds like he is closing in on 10%, but we don't know where he started from. Was he a 98 pound weakling or has he worked for years to get where he is and he's fine-tuning? Also, he may be a she.

[Zach]

Yes im taking liberties in assuming he is male, 10%~ bf and at least in good shape if he is worrying about PWO carb loading.

[otzi]

Yes im taking liberties in assuming he is male, 10%~ bf and at least in good shape if he is worrying about PWO carb loading.

I once told a person to IF and cut calories only to find out it was a 17 year old girl, 5'1" who weighed 97lbs.

[Ripped]

I say it all depends on the OP. If he is 200lbs overweight the answer will be different than if he is at 12% bodyfat and really trying to get ripped.

It sounds like he is closing in on 10%, but we don't know where he started from. Was he a 98 pound weakling or has he worked for years to get where he is and he's fine-tuning? Also, he may be a she.

No. The answer would not be different. Requirements for losing body fat remain the same. Cut calories.

[feren6]

OP, the key is to find a plan that works for YOU.

There are so many different methods and ways to approach it, but the best way is one that is consistent -- thus making it optimal for your lifestyle.

I've tried so many different things over the past year with IF schedule. The only thing that stuck with me was the following schedule/routine:

Feeding window: 2PM-10PM
BCAAs pre-workout @ 1PM
Workout: 1-2PM
PWO: Most of the carbs and about half of the protein
Dinner: The rest -- smaller amount of carbs and protein, and the majority of the fat.

Martin at LeanGains found with his clients that you should aim for all the carbs post workout, but if not, it's not a huge deal. Don't worry about fitting all your carbs at a certain time if it doesn't work for you in the long run. If you feel like shit on a certain schedule, then don't do it. Make it work for you, not the other way around.

Regardless, I'd assume that eating most of your carbs closer to right after you work out is optimal..and by optimal I mean it probably matters by <5% of your results. Consistency is key, the rest is just micromanaging to a point of obsession, and is unrealistic in the long term.

[jakey]

i don't believe it matters, at all, for anyone.