Whey Protein "PIG SLOP" page 7

[Artbuc]

Was that guest of Jimmy's someone who sells protein powders for a living perchance? (honest question.)
I agree with Neckhammer. Just eat some real food. I don't see anything wrong with powders if you honestly don't have time to eat and Neckhammer's suggestion of mixing with coconut milk is a good one. Still not really Primal though.

Dr Donald Layman - don't think he is selling anything which is pretty unusual. I do believe many of the nutrition experts out there today are whack-a-doodles, including some interviewed by Moore. In this case, I found many other sources saying pretty much the same thing. My protein sources are decent: pastured eggs, Wild Planet sardines & skipjack tuna, local grass fed beef, US Wellness liverwurst, Wild Idea grass fed bison, Kerrygold cheese and organic chicken. However, it is hard for me to consume 3 grams per meal of leucine - I just do not desire that much food. I was thinking about whey only as a way to fortify what I already eat. Here is the Jimmy Moore podcast:

24: All Things Protein (Protein 101) | Dr. Donald Layman | Jimmy Moore Presents: Ask The Low-Carb Experts

Here is Layman's bio:

http://fshn.illinois.edu/directory/donald-layman

Update: a company called Qivana is selling weight-loss shakes based on Layman's research. It is called Metaboliq. Layman doesn't appear to own the company but his name is all over the marketing so I assume he gets a royalty on sales. I did not listen to the entire podcast but Layman said nothing about Metaboliq during the part I heard. In fact, Moore asked him about whey shakes. Layman was rather neutral saying he didn't think they were necessarily bad and he usually had a whey shake each morning, but he didn't mention any particlar brand.

[Kingofturtles]

Artbuc,

Use whey if you want. Nothing wrong with fortifying your meals with it.

[jojohaligo]

Finally this discussion is intelligent.

[Knifegill]

I think most of us are already getting excess leucine, anyway, by those guidelines. Why supplement what's already there?

[cori93437]

I think most of us are already getting excess leucine, anyway, by those guidelines. Why supplement what's already there?

Excess... ?

Those guidelines say about 3 grams leucine per meal... which would be from say 40 grams of chicken protein... which is about 7.5 oz of chicken breast with rib on (I always prefer bone on meats).
I could totally eat that for dinner... possibly even a slightly larger chicken breast on a really hungry day since I tend to IF naturally.

But certainly I don't eat that much multiple times a day...
And I think if one can't or doesn't wish to hit that volume of food a bit of supplement isn't a bad thing at all.

[AshleyL]

Horses do NOT have multi stomachs. Cows do! Horse's have a single stomach.

Yes, sorry, brain fart. They have, technically, one stomach. However, their digestion, with their more developed hind gut, is very different from ours, like a cow in the sense it is a big fermentation vat allowing them to digest cellulose fibers we cannot digest. Also allowing things to go deadly haywire with rapid dietary changes or too much sugar/starch in the diet, just like a cow/goat/sheep etc. Pigs don't really digest cellulose, they have faster digestion and can eat richer food because they don't ferment like ruminants and horses do.

[Knifegill]

Excess... ?

Those guidelines say about 3 grams leucine per meal... which would be from say 40 grams of chicken protein... which is about 7.5 oz of chicken breast with rib on (I always prefer bone on meats).
I could totally eat that for dinner... possibly even a slightly larger chicken breast on a really hungry day since I tend to IF naturally.

But certainly I don't eat that much multiple times a day...
And I think if one can't or doesn't wish to hit that volume of food a bit of supplement isn't a bad thing at all.

No, not multiple times a day. Who's in such a hurry to add muscle?! Even once a day is more than enough to be laying down more muscle faster than usual. Muscle just flies on like the plague, anyway. Why help it along? Soon you'll look like a worthless pit bull or a bag of tumors. Where is the health? The human heart cannot sustain that kind of muscle mass any more than it can a human ball of fat. It's hard enough already to avoid muscles. Sometimes I go weeks without a work-out to keep it in check.

But for those people who really want to look like a bag of tumors, three meals a day seems reasonable. You need to eat that much to grow anyway. Might as well spread it out. 7.5 ounces of meat is not much at all. Even three times that (for three meals a day) doesn't even hit two pounds. For people who want to look like pit bulls, three pounds of meat per day is a good start. Can't be afraid of food if you want to be strong. It's the bigness that is the problem!

[cori93437]

No, not multiple times a day. Who's in such a hurry to add muscle?! Even once a day is more than enough to be laying down more muscle faster than usual. Muscle just flies on like the plague, anyway. Why help it along? Soon you'll look like a worthless pit bull or a bag of tumors. Where is the health? The human heart cannot sustain that kind of muscle mass any more than it can a human ball of fat. It's hard enough already to avoid muscles. Sometimes I go weeks without a work-out to keep it in check.

But for those people who really want to look like a bag of tumors, three meals a day seems reasonable. You need to eat that much to grow anyway. Might as well spread it out.

Ok... hehe... Agreed!!!

He was saying "per meal" and I kept thinking "3 meals per day?" and the thought of all that food was overwhelming.
And I suppose dudes who really what to stack can put away a lot more food volume/kcal that I can! It shouldn't be a problem.

[Artbuc]

Ok... hehe... Agreed!!!

He was saying "per meal" and I kept thinking "3 meals per day?" and the thought of all that food was overwhelming.
And I suppose dudes who really what to stack can put away a lot more food volume/kcal that I can! It shouldn't be a problem.

Ok, now I am confused. Are you saying 9 grams of leucine per day distributed evenly among 3 meals is excessive? Do you believe 30 grams per meal of protein is excessive? I am an old guy, 63, and I am concerned about muscle atrophy. From what I understand I probably need more protein than younger folks to help offset the normal aging process. Layman is saying that anything less than 30 grams of protein per meal will not trigger muscle protein synthesis. Less than that and the only benefit you get from the protein is the calories. I am not saying this is correct because I do not know. Just relaying Layman's theory. I did not hear the leucine requirement from Layman but it is mentioned in a number of studies. You need a lot more than 30 grams of protein to get 3 grams of leucine unless you are consuming whey concentrate.

[cori93437]

As I posted the 3grams of leucine you are wanting should be attainable from 7.5 oz of bone on chicken breast (as an example, you are losing some weight as bone you don't eat)
Or 5.5oz of beef skirt steak (another example).

Yeah, to me 5 eggs is a lot... I cannot eat that many and I wouldn't choose that as a way to get in leucine if I was concerned. But the meats where it is more concentrated don't seem to be a volume problem to me and I'm a pretty light eater.

Those are not exactly staggering amounts of food if you are exercising to create muscle growth and eating regular meals.

Adding leucine to your diet by itself but not lifting/exercising to grow muscle won't help prevent atrophy.
But if you really want to supplement leucine by using whey you can certainly go ahead and do it if you think you need it and it will really help... there are also lots of guys your age not supplementing and building muscle.
We all make our own choices.