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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    That's kind of the conclusion I came up with as well. I guess to illustrate my point that you don't 'burn ingested fat directly' you'd have to color-code or irradiate a stick of butter and follow that through your body with an MRI or PET scan. My thought is that if you eat pure fat (CO, Ghee, lard, Crisco, etc...) none of it gets picked up by any mitochondria for energy purposes, but rather gets processed by various means and stored in adipose tissue for later release as free fatty acids that the mitochondria can use.

    So, eating a stick of butter (for instance) provides a source of fat calories to keep your adipose tissues filled, but the butter will not be burned preferentially over free fatty acids because the CAN'T be burned directly.

    So probably the only people who would need to eat a stick of butter or hunks of lard are people who are undergoing extreme physical exertion such as those on a polar expedition, mountain climbers, distance swimmers in cold water...
    Or people who don't do well on high carbohydrate diets, but function better on high fat keto diets or somewhere near that, for medical reasons... tight blood sugar control, neurological reasons, etc.

    Not eating whole sticks of butter or chunks of lard alone of course. Kinda ick.

    Also, on MCT's...
    "When MCT's are absorbed into the blood stream, they bypass the digestion process that longer chain fats go through. MCT's provide quick energy for the body and are thus less likely to be stored in the fat cells... MCT has a smaller molecular structure and is more soluble in water. Therefore, it is easier for your body to absorb and does not require this complicated digestive process. Whereas conventional fats are prone to being stored as body fat, MCT is transported directly from the small intestine to the liver. In the liver, some of the MCTs are turned into ketone bodies, which the muscles can use for energy. Some MCT's are used for thermogenesis, and a portion is converted to ATP, the energy currency of the cell. MCT, therefore is processed in the liver, so there is little left to be stored as fat."

    I know that the much higher rate of MCT's conversion to ketones is believes to be the reason for its success in treating the onset of Alzheimer's in some cases.

    Of course anything consumed in excess calorically will be stored as fat. Calories still matter.
    Last edited by cori93437; 12-01-2012 at 10:06 AM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    So probably the only people who would need to eat a stick of butter or hunks of lard are people who are undergoing extreme physical exertion such as those on a polar expedition, mountain climbers, distance swimmers in cold water...
    People that need a steady flow of energy, to heat the body and not too high intensity performance demands probably. Personally I have tried to go to the gym after ingesting a hot fatty chocolate drink, with added butter, but it does not give me good performance energy and the fat also slow down the absorption of sugar from the chocolate. It is probably not optimal directly after hard exercise either, when you really need to shuttle energy fast into the body cells, but the experts are somehow disagreeing upon that point…

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    People that need a steady flow of energy, to heat the body and not too high intensity performance demands probably. Personally I have tried to go to the gym after ingesting a hot fatty chocolate drink, with added butter, but it does not give me good performance energy and the fat also slow down the absorption of sugar from the chocolate. It is probably not optimal directly after hard exercise either, when you really need to shuttle energy fast into the body cells, but the experts are somehow disagreeing upon that point…
    I have just been reading a lot lately it seems where people make the statement "dietary fat gets burned directly by the body" . There is a guy getting ready to pull a sled 500 miles across Antarctica and said he will be eating sticks of butter for energy and also a guy who was swimming in polar waters last year talking about eating butter and drinking some kind of oil for energy.

    If that were the case, it seems anyone on a high-fat diet would have high triglycerides, but that is obviously not the case.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I have just been reading a lot lately it seems where people make the statement "dietary fat gets burned directly by the body" . There is a guy getting ready to pull a sled 500 miles across Antarctica and said he will be eating sticks of butter for energy and also a guy who was swimming in polar waters last year talking about eating butter and drinking some kind of oil for energy.

    If that were the case, it seems anyone on a high-fat diet would have high triglycerides, but that is obviously not the case.
    If he was drinking oil I would bet money he was drinking pure MCT oil.

    The exercise feats you are discussing are the opposite of high intensity though... long slow climbs, the long slow pulling of a sled 500 miles, distance swimming in frigid waters...
    Those people need a completely different kind of energy. Eating fat has a huge caloric payoff for the cold environment where their body is going to need to have to work even harder than normal to keep warm, and it will keep them going at a slow pace steadily indefinitely.
    No giant bursts of speed maybe, but when you are talking pulling a sled 500 miles it's not about sprints.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
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    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I have just been reading a lot lately it seems where people make the statement "dietary fat gets burned directly by the body" . There is a guy getting ready to pull a sled 500 miles across Antarctica and said he will be eating sticks of butter for energy and also a guy who was swimming in polar waters last year talking about eating butter and drinking some kind of oil for energy.

    If that were the case, it seems anyone on a high-fat diet would have high triglycerides, but that is obviously not the case.
    Maybe because sticks of butter is convenient to get a lot of calories? Fat provides a steady flow of energy and it is very energy dense, so it make sense to take it in lower intensity work like pulling a sled for ten hours per day or long distance swimming. Personally I would also have loaded up on fatty chocolate, pemmican and dried fruit etc.

    Generally I think that that persons involved in high intensity work will do better on more simple carbohydrates for performance energy. Especially competing athletes with less body fat. Also, when people are getting leaner the body cannot provide sufficient fat for energy fast enough when doing high intensity anaerobic work…

  6. #46
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    To get back to the subject at hand - I made a list of the first five days of the "Health Recovery" plan in EFLF:
    Health Recovery:
    Day One:

    Pre-Breakfast:
    Coffee with heavy cream and stevia – 157 cal.

    Breakfast:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Ginger Oatmeal (p. 257) 144 cal.
    w/butter – 36 cal.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    2 teaspoons CLO
    1 Vit K2
    = 350

    Snack: Coconut milk tonic (p. 220) w/ stevia – 189 cal.
    1 amla-C capsule

    Lunch:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Coconut Chicken soup (p. 182) w/o rice 299 cal.
    Crackers [16 Nut thins] – 130 cal. w/ raw cheese [1/2 cup] – 266 cal.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    = 865

    Snack: Coconut milk tonic (p. 220) w/ stevia – 189 cal.
    1 amla-C capsule


    Dinner:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Coconut beef soup w/ vegetables (p. 183) – 317 cal.
    Crackers [16 Nut thins] – 130 cal. w/ raw cheese [1/2 cup] – 266 cal.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    1 liver capsule
    1 Krill oil capsule
    = 883

    == 2633 cal.

    Day Two:
    Pre-Breakfast:
    Coffee with heavy cream and stevia – 157 cal.

    Breakfast:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Super Scramble (p. 253) – 209 cal.
    Bacon [2 pieces] – 84 cal.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    2 teaspoons CLO
    1 Vit K2
    = 463

    Snack: Coconut chicken broth (p. 182) – 216 cal.
    1 amla-C capsule

    Lunch:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Coconut beef soup w/ vegetables (p. 183) – 317 cal.
    Crackers [16 Nut thins] – 130 cal. w/ raw cheese [1/2 cup] – 266 cal.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    = 883

    Snack: Coconut milk tonic (p. 220) w/ stevia – 189 cal.
    1 amla-C capsule

    Dinner:
    Thai marinated fish (p. 192) – 287 cals.
    Crackers [16 Nut thins] – 130 cal. w/ raw cheese [1/2 cup] – 266 cal.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    1 liver capsule
    1 Krill oil capsule
    = 713

    == 2621 cals.


    Day Three:

    Pre-Breakfast:
    Coffee with heavy cream and stevia – 157 cal.

    Breakfast:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Coconut Smoothie (p. 206) – w/stevia – 562 cal.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    2 teaspoons CLO
    1 Vit K2
    = 732

    Snack: Coconut milk tonic (p. 220) w/ stevia – 189 cal.
    1 amla-C capsule

    Lunch:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Coconut Fish Soup (p. 183) – 253 cal.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    = 423

    Snack: Coconut milk tonic (p. 220) w/ stevia – 189 cal.
    1 amla-C capsule

    Dinner:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Coconut Fish Soup (p. 183) – 253 cal.
    Crackers [16 Nut thins] – 130 cal. w/ pate [2 oz] – 180 cal.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    1 liver capsule
    1 Krill oil capsule
    = 733

    == 2423


    Day Four

    Pre-Breakfast:
    Coffee with heavy cream and stevia – 157 cal.

    Breakfast:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Basic Oatmeal (p. 257) – 100 cal.
    w/ butter – 36 cal.
    Bacon [2 pieces] – 84 cal.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    2 teaspoons CLO
    1 Vit K2
    = 390

    Snack: Coconut milk tonic (p. 220) w/ stevia – 189 cal.
    1 amla-C capsule

    Lunch:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Crackers [16 Nut thins] – 130 cal. w/ pate [3 oz] – 270 cal.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    Lacto-fermented condiment – 20 cals.
    = 590

    Snack: Coconut milk tonic (p. 220) w/ stevia – 189 cal.
    1 amla-C capsule

    Dinner:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Cream of vegetable soup (p. 232) 2 cups – 260 cal.
    Easy baked salmon (p. 245) – 332 cal.
    Steamed spinach (p. 255) – 69 cals.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    1 liver capsule
    1 Krill oil capsule
    = 831

    == 2346


    Day Five
    Pre-Breakfast:
    Coffee with heavy cream and stevia – 157 cal.

    Breakfast:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Yogurt Smoothie (p. 205-206) w/stevia – 444 cals.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    2 teaspoons CLO
    1 Vit K2
    = 617 cal.

    Snack: Coconut milk tonic (p. 220) w/ stevia – 189 cal.
    1 amla-C capsule

    Lunch:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Wild Salmon Salad – 420 cals.
    Lacto-fermented condiment – 20 cals.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    = 610

    Snack: Coconut milk tonic (p. 220) w/ stevia – 189 cal.
    1 amla-C capsule

    Dinner:
    Hot tea with coconut oil – 140 cal.
    Creamy Onion Soup (p. 233) – 286 cal.
    Baked Lamb chop with red peppers and onions (p. 249) – 353 cals.
    Steamed broccoli w/butter (p. 255) – 74 cal.
    Lacto-fermented condiment – 20 cals.
    1 cup fermented beverage – 30 cal.
    1 liver capsule
    1 Krill oil capsule
    = 903 cal.

    == 2665 cals.
    Last edited by SarahW; 12-03-2012 at 09:37 AM.

  7. #47
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    To explain: That's not exactly how it is laid out in the book, but 95% accurate. I tweaked to add the morning coffee (not on the menu) and the supplements are a guesstimate and leave out the fermented CLO/high vitamin butter oil that is suggested. I added the K2, and the liver is just some grass-fed frozen raw liver that I chopped up. I also moved around some food slightly.

    I'm making this for my husband, who will follow it since Enig is a nutritionist and scientist. The Nut-thins are an okay product, more a delivery system for cheese. I do have access to raw milk, but not for another week, and I'm thinking that cutting back on dairy might be an interesting experiment (DH currently drinks a lot of milk), so it looks like I'm buying a boatload of coconut milk.

    I ran the calorie counts because I ran some calculations on FitDay and it told me that DH should stay around 2600 calories a day to lose a pound a week. Though right now we're more interested in solving his borderline hyperglycemia and hypertension and his arrhythmia. btw, calorie counts don't include the supplements.

    The only obviously non-primal item is the oatmeal. Instructions are to soak the whole oats overnight in whey, which would alleviate some of the obvious issues. But, the oatmeal could probably be dropped for some eggs. Eggs have better nutrition, yes? But DH has already commented that he is sick of eating eggs every morning. Silly guy. But he did actually spend most of his life eating a "continental" breakfast. Plus, all his life he's been told that eggs are unhealthy, and he's already afraid he's going to die tomorrow of cancer.

    I tried searching the web to find other people who followed any of the plans in the book, and came up with pretty much nothing. If I (/we) do do a full launch of this program I'll be sure to come back and give updates.

  8. #48
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    The inconsistency I see in the EFLF book is that they are all about the good fats and ketosis yet still hold on to the grains like the morning oatmeal. Yes, soaking it makes it more benign in terms of anti-nutrient content but it doesn't make it more nutritious or reduce the carbs. I would rather "spend" my calories on something that is nutritionally more dense than oatmeal, like eggs.

    I am incorporating the coconut products more in my diet but keeping the focus on ketosis. I don't know why anyone would eat oats (aka horse fodder) when they could have eggs.

  9. #49
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    How does hubby feel about fish? Most people find this weird, but I eat fish for breakfast. Costco sells a big jar of pickled herring for cheap - doesn't take much to satisfy my morning hunger. I add a dollop of whole fat sour cream, and dill works well with that. Also, Costco's smoked salmon is relatively inexpensive, and you can eat that (sans bagel) with some cream cheese and capers and red onion slices and tomato; I've also had it with avocado, tomato, and onion.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I don't know why anyone would eat oats (aka horse fodder) when they could have eggs.
    Because those gooey oats soak up the margarine, brown sugar, and Mrs. Butterworth's Maple Syrup so nicely! If you get instant oatmeal with imitation apple chunks, it's kinda like a serving of fruit!

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