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Thread: Chief Rok knows more then anyone on fat loss, including Sisson, Stephen,etc page 13

  1. #121
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    Undigested cellulose, leads to increased inflammation, irritated digestive track, increased serotonin levels, thyroid suppressing goitrogens, chemical substances, polyunsaturated fats, etc etc
    Undigested cellulose is just insoluble nasty fiber. I get the irritation. But why would inert fiber mess with serotonin or be goitrogenic? And why, halfway through your list, did you randomly change gears and mention chemical substances (almost everything is a chemical substance) and polyunsaturated fat? It makes no sense yet. Please explain.


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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Not calling you orthorexic, just talking about someone who needs to exclude certain foods for "superior" ones because of something someone else proclaimed as truth without even considering how their body responds is just silly.

    I think maybe in a first world country like ours there is no need for grains, but around the world, people depend on them to stay alive. That makes them pretty important as a food.

    Looking back, i guess i dont disagree with you per see, maybe it is true that obese, unhealthy, sedentary people do not need as many carbs as a highly active individual with a great metabolism. Dont dont agree that there is any one number like everyone needs 150g of carbs to fill glycogen storage. Everyone is different, everyones energy needs are different and i truly believe that for the vast majority of people, carbs should be their go to source for energy. This means that amounts could vary vastly, depending on many factors.
    I agree that there isn't a single number that everybody should target. It depends on the person and their goals. The range I gave was generalized for a sedentary group of people (or overweight/obese). Those people only need enough carbs to keep the brain fueled.

    I understand that grains are important for other countries around the world that may not have access with the quality of foods that we're accustomed to in first world countries. However, it is important from a survival aspect not a nutritional one. The original point of my first post was that grains shouldn't be the first choice when trying to increase ones carb intake unless they're getting their nutrition from some another source and don't mind (or want) the empty calories.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    Undigested cellulose is just insoluble nasty fiber. I get the irritation. But why would inert fiber mess with serotonin or be goitrogenic? And why, halfway through your list, did you randomly change gears and mention chemical substances (almost everything is a chemical substance) and polyunsaturated fat? It makes no sense yet. Please explain.
    I was listing why green vegetables are bad. Irritated digestive track = increased levels of serotonin. Serotonin is mostly present in your digestive system.

    Goitrogens because they're found in all leafy greens. Eating a lot of them can suppress metabolism and thyroid hormones.

    Chemical substances that are unique to these plants to deter animals away from eating them. Phenols, tannins, lectins, agglutinins, and trypsin inhibitors.

    Polyunsaturated fats because they're rife with them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    Undigested cellulose is just insoluble nasty fiber. I get the irritation. But why would inert fiber mess with serotonin or be goitrogenic? And why, halfway through your list, did you randomly change gears and mention chemical substances (almost everything is a chemical substance) and polyunsaturated fat? It makes no sense yet. Please explain.
    I didn't understand either. I think the strategy here was "science science science BIG WORDS science I WIN!"

  5. #125
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    going by personal experience, i don't believe that vegetables, cooked or raw, are nearly as harmful as wheat
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  6. #126
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    I actually never got a bad reaction from anything with gluten, but I definitely felt off eating raw vegetables. Not to mention the horrible taste. Not saying gluten is good or anything, and I don't eat it anymore personally. I ate it for years though, and never really noticed anything.

    Gluten can irritate your digestive system just as badly for sure.
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    I want to mention that upon looking at the Chief's blog, I'm under the impression that he's simply looking to make money and/or promote himself. He claims to have fat loss secrets but the things he writes are hardly any different then what has been covered by numerous of authors or athletes (feasting/fasting sounds like lean gains or the warrior diet for example). The only difference is that he does put a single piece of scientific evidence to back up his claims other than "I do this, I eat that, look at me" kind of thing. One of the first posts I saw was about how he goes to the buffet and get something like 3 plates of food while drinking cola and proceeds to go home and eat more junk food.

    Looking at his pictures I can see that he's a large guy. He's got big arms and a big chest, lots of muscle. I understand why his diet works for him, eat lots of calories and bulk like crazy. The only probably is that it doesn't work for everybody. Very few people want to look like the Hulk. Also, he seems like a young guy evidenced by his pictures on the splash screen to his blog. His diet for a much older person would have disastrous results.

    Take home point. Don't eat like the Chief, but don't shun any food or food group either. Take all things in moderation, and do what feels right.

  8. #128
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    I was listing why green vegetables are bad. Irritated digestive track = increased levels of serotonin. Serotonin is mostly present in your digestive system.

    Goitrogens because they're found in all leafy greens. Eating a lot of them can suppress metabolism and thyroid hormones.

    Chemical substances that are unique to these plants to deter animals away from eating them. Phenols, tannins, lectins, agglutinins, and trypsin inhibitors.

    Polyunsaturated fats because they're rife with them.
    Okay, those make more sense. But knowing which of those things are in which veggies lets us choose which ones to eat, and how to prepare them.


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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    Because sugar suppresses stress hormones, and also the liberation of fatty acids from triglycerides and phospholipids. It seems like it's nutritionally void, but it's doing much more on another level.

    It's funny you're so irrational you have to twist around his words. A little bit insecure are we?

    The crusade against gluten is pretty blown out of proportion. I would even go so far as to say the green vegetables you people eat truckloads of a day are more harmful.
    Go back and read what he wrote...he just carried on about empty calories being good and to not go low carb which Primal isn't and I agreed with. I also agreed with his point on processed food most of which is grained based but

    In response to my pointing out the grains are empty calories
    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Thats a really ridiculous assumption. Calories sustain life, there are a few billion Asians that seem to be doing ok on a diet heavy in grains. Bottom line, you cant blame the obesity epidemic on any one thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Yes sometimes empty calories can be good for you. Hard to understand, i know.
    Not much of an explanation as far as i can see.

    Interesting you are worried about the gut irritation from vegetables but not from whole grains which I understand is much much worse.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodorchid View Post
    usually, not always, but usually when people discuss grains they mean wheat (maybe oats.. rarely rice) so that's where i'm coming from.

    by modern i mean everything getting gmo'd with pesticide genes

    and i'm not eating low carb, i eat potatoes, tomatoes, fruit and dairy. sometimes rice

    and finally, i have hormonal issues in the form of pcos. when i cut out wheat i stop experiencing pretty much every symptom i had. when i add wheat back in, symptoms show up by the next day. the longer i eat wheat products, the more the inner symptoms develop (no period, etc)
    Sounds like you know what you are doing. No need to screw up a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmagic View Post
    I agree that there isn't a single number that everybody should target. It depends on the person and their goals. The range I gave was generalized for a sedentary group of people (or overweight/obese). Those people only need enough carbs to keep the brain fueled.

    I understand that grains are important for other countries around the world that may not have access with the quality of foods that we're accustomed to in first world countries. However, it is important from a survival aspect not a nutritional one. The original point of my first post was that grains shouldn't be the first choice when trying to increase ones carb intake unless they're getting their nutrition from some another source and don't mind (or want) the empty calories.
    I agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kata View Post
    I didn't understand either. I think the strategy here was "science science science BIG WORDS science I WIN!"
    Another example of looking stupid by trying to make someone else look stupid. Try reading and researching before attacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodorchid View Post
    going by personal experience, i don't believe that vegetables, cooked or raw, are nearly as harmful as wheat
    N=1 is always best. For me, excess fiber causes exactly what Derpamix said. But i eat massive amounts of wheat with no ill effect. I do only eat white flour though, not whole grains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmagic View Post
    I want to mention that upon looking at the Chief's blog, I'm under the impression that he's simply looking to make money and/or promote himself. He claims to have fat loss secrets but the things he writes are hardly any different then what has been covered by numerous of authors or athletes (feasting/fasting sounds like lean gains or the warrior diet for example). The only difference is that he does put a single piece of scientific evidence to back up his claims other than "I do this, I eat that, look at me" kind of thing. One of the first posts I saw was about how he goes to the buffet and get something like 3 plates of food while drinking cola and proceeds to go home and eat more junk food.

    Looking at his pictures I can see that he's a large guy. He's got big arms and a big chest, lots of muscle. I understand why his diet works for him, eat lots of calories and bulk like crazy. The only probably is that it doesn't work for everybody. Very few people want to look like the Hulk. Also, he seems like a young guy evidenced by his pictures on the splash screen to his blog. His diet for a much older person would have disastrous results.

    Take home point. Don't eat like the Chief, but don't shun any food or food group either. Take all things in moderation, and do what feels right.
    His site does look a bit shady, and it doesnt make much sense i agree. There is a lot more to his site and his comments then what a quick glance then gather though. No harm in bookmarking his site and checking it out if you have nothing to do. Its always good to get another perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirlot View Post
    Go back and read what he wrote...he just carried on about empty calories being good and to not go low carb which Primal isn't and I agreed with. I also agreed with his point on processed food most of which is grained based but

    In response to my pointing out the grains are empty calories




    Not much of an explanation as far as i can see.

    Interesting you are worried about the gut irritation from vegetables but not from whole grains which I understand is much much worse.
    It is your aggressive attitude towards me that turns me off from wanting to explain further. My point is, grains may be "empty calories" but they may induce other actions in the body that one wouldnt even think of connecting them. Just like Derpamix explained with vegetables which almost all camps agree are as healthy as it gets, yet inside the body they may be doing much more then just the sum total of their nutrients.

    As for vegetables, check this out if you get a chance. Vegetables, etc.—Who Defines Food?

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