Chief Rok knows more then anyone on fat loss, including Sisson, Stephen,etc page 12

[Zach]

then tell him exactly what you mean, if him going by the words you type is wrong, zach

also, can you (i'm serious here) explain why modern wheat is okay to eat when my body reacts negatively to it in the form of hormonal problems and widespread bodyache

My last 4 or so posts have been explanations. He responds with "troll" and "lol". No reason to keep trying. He has his mind set and isnt about to give up any ground.

Modern as opposed to what? There is whole grain, sprouted, white but wheat is wheat. Understanding why it is giving you a negative reaction would be a start. I never did say that wheat specifically was good or bad, just that grains in general can be perfectly healthy.

Are you eating a low carb diet? How long have you been wheat free? Has it always negatively affected you, even as a kid or is this a recent problem? What do you mean by hormonal problems?

[otzi]

My last 4 or so posts have been explanations. He responds with "troll" and "lol". No reason to keep trying. He has his mind set and isnt about to give up any ground.

Hey, Zach - I know you came to this forum to talk about the potato diet + coconut oil, you actually seem to have a solid background in nutrition and are literate. You'd probably be an asset around here if you quit trying to defend whatever you are defending in this post and just read for a few weeks and get a feel for how we operate. You'd be surprised how open we are to new people and ideas. Once a thread sinks to page 3 or 4, it's pretty much gone forever...that may be the best place for this thread.

[Zach]

Thanks Otzi, not really trying to defend, more give people a chance to think about the other side of the coin, so to speak. I promise i wont be bumping this, just wanted to respond to people asking questions.

[Jmagic]

Sometimes people become so deranged and orthorexic about their diets that only way to save them is the pizza and beer diet. I have seen it a hundred times over and you wont get it until it happens to you.


I didnt use the word paleo once.


Because eating only fruits and vegetables is just playing into the orthorexic mindset nonsense. Grains have never been and never will be a cause of disease unless your talking gluten and celiac. And once again it is far to complicated to blame gluten as the driving factor, sure it exacerbates the probelm, but is it the root cause? Also have you ever questioned what you know about carbs? I dont agree with your thoughts on how many carbs people need.

I'm not orthorexic and not even necessarily paleo. I come to this site because I like to learn news things and ideas and incorporate them into my lifestyle.

I don't eat grains or wheat simply because I prefer not to, not because I'm afraid to or because I believe that they're dangerous. I'll eat them on occasion when I go out with friends or family, but they're not a staple for me as I prefer to eat more nutrient dense foods.

I did not say that grains are the cause of disease, nor that one to stay away from them. I simply said there isn't a need for them (as they're nutritionally absent) unless you just really wanted to increase your carb intake.

Since you disagree with my thoughts about the amount of carbs people need, care to share your opinion on the matter?

[Zach]

I'm not orthorexic and not even necessarily paleo. I come to this site because I like to learn news things and ideas and incorporate them into my lifestyle.

I don't eat grains or wheat simply because I prefer not to, not because I'm afraid to or because I believe that they're dangerous. I'll eat them on occasion when I go out with friends or family, but they're not a staple for me as I prefer to eat more nutrient dense foods.

I did not say that grains are the cause of disease, nor that one to stay away from them. I simply said there isn't a need for them (as they're nutritionally absent) unless you just really wanted to increase your carb intake.

Since you disagree with my thoughts about the amount of carbs people need, care to share your opinion on the matter?

Not calling you orthorexic, just talking about someone who needs to exclude certain foods for "superior" ones because of something someone else proclaimed as truth without even considering how their body responds is just silly.

I think maybe in a first world country like ours there is no need for grains, but around the world, people depend on them to stay alive. That makes them pretty important as a food.

Looking back, i guess i dont disagree with you per see, maybe it is true that obese, unhealthy, sedentary people do not need as many carbs as a highly active individual with a great metabolism. Dont dont agree that there is any one number like everyone needs 150g of carbs to fill glycogen storage. Everyone is different, everyones energy needs are different and i truly believe that for the vast majority of people, carbs should be their go to source for energy. This means that amounts could vary vastly, depending on many factors.

[bloodorchid]

My last 4 or so posts have been explanations. He responds with "troll" and "lol". No reason to keep trying. He has his mind set and isnt about to give up any ground.

Modern as opposed to what? There is whole grain, sprouted, white but wheat is wheat. Understanding why it is giving you a negative reaction would be a start. I never did say that wheat specifically was good or bad, just that grains in general can be perfectly healthy.

Are you eating a low carb diet? How long have you been wheat free? Has it always negatively affected you, even as a kid or is this a recent problem? What do you mean by hormonal problems?

usually, not always, but usually when people discuss grains they mean wheat (maybe oats.. rarely rice) so that's where i'm coming from.

by modern i mean everything getting gmo'd with pesticide genes

and i'm not eating low carb, i eat potatoes, tomatoes, fruit and dairy. sometimes rice

and finally, i have hormonal issues in the form of pcos. when i cut out wheat i stop experiencing pretty much every symptom i had. when i add wheat back in, symptoms show up by the next day. the longer i eat wheat products, the more the inner symptoms develop (no period, etc)

[Derpamix]

Oh please oh troll enlighten us fools who think nutrition is important for health and shovelling spoonfuls of sugar is a bad thing?

Because sugar suppresses stress hormones, and also the liberation of fatty acids from triglycerides and phospholipids. It seems like it's nutritionally void, but it's doing much more on another level.

It's funny you're so irrational you have to twist around his words. A little bit insecure are we?

The crusade against gluten is pretty blown out of proportion. I would even go so far as to say the green vegetables you people eat truckloads of a day are more harmful.

[Knifegill]

I don't eat much greenery. All the oxalates and nitrates sort of turn me off. So I'm getting it on with organ meats, eggs, typical Primal fare. Because since giving up grains and crap oils I have changed my life. No longer do I walk with a limp, have huge zits, constant farts, a huge gut, seasonal allergies, and more. Maybe it's not the gluten, maybe it's Round-Up. Perhaps we all just have Round-Up allergies.

As for sugar, I say it's not bad in small amounts, maybe moderate amounts for some people. Remember, Mark himself puts sugar in his coffee and has - in at least one interview - given sugar a break. It's the excess of it, the living on it and being addicted to not only it, but the crap food it often comes in that can ruin health. Not that I'd just up and drink 80g of dissolved pure sugar anytime soon, but some dark chocolate, some honey, molasses and dates and raisins aren't the devil. Mountain Dew and Snickers are the devil.

[bloodorchid]

The crusade against gluten is pretty blown out of proportion. I would even go so far as to say the green vegetables you people eat truckloads of a day are more harmful.

hmmmmmnawww, naw. just naw

[Derpamix]

hmmmmmnawww, naw. just naw

Undigested cellulose, leads to increased inflammation, irritated digestive track, increased serotonin levels, thyroid suppressing goitrogens, chemical substances, polyunsaturated fats, etc etc