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  1. #21
    Artbuc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scientist View Post
    Everything that I know about blood glucose regulation tells me that 8-10 grams of carbs alone cannot possibly be causing that spike. You are making blood glucose by gluconeogenesis from your protein intake. You need a negative control to prove it, though. What does a zero-carb meal do for you? Try a big bowl of eggs or a steak and see what happens. You could also try a fat only meal as an additional control. If I am right, I'm not entirely sure what that means for you metabolically (doesn't seem good), but I am very curious now and want to look into it tomorrow.
    Here is a post I found on another forum. Maybe I am eating too much protein?

    "Yes, protein is converted to glucose above and beyond your blood sugar needs if it there is no room in the muscles for the excess glucose (because you either eat too much protein or you don't exercise enough). I've seen it happen in my own body many times on ZC, since I started taking my BG.

    Unfortunately, although this is a great question, asking people's experience with this will not give you the most reliable answers unless they're actually checking BG - otherwise, there is no way to tell what's going on with BG. But yes, weight gain can be an indicator. Likely when you were eating higher protein and lower fat, your calories were just lower than when you increased fat by a lot, Kristelle, and that's why your weight was lower.

    I had a chronically high BG on a zero-carb diet because I wasn't yet exercising the way I do now, and the glucose had nowhere to go if I consumed more than about 80 g protein a day. Now that I weightlift, my body needs more like 130 g of protein to support my lean mass, but if I exceed that, I get high BG, even with exercise, (unless I do something especially vigorous or lengthy, like do a 2-hour hike, etc.)."

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingofturtles View Post
    I was reading a cholesterol study that graphed out the different types of carbs along with the harm they caused. All of them were pretty bad. Ill link sometime when I am not on my phone.

    With that being said, some carbs are better than other but, light cigarettes are better than full tar cigs and no one says "smoke the good cigarettes." Good is actually less bad.

    Maybe I'll look into some good research on my own a d post what I find.
    Sorry, you are way off if you think an entire macro nutrient is harmful. You realize vegetables are mostly carbs? You think sweet potato causes harm? Carbs are arguably as bad as fats if they are from bad food. Do you know how many people have perfectly fine cholesterol eating low fat? Do you think the African Olympic runners are loading on fat? Do they have high cholesterol?

    And if you get this info from simply reading a study you are probably misunderstanding it or the study is bad science. You can find a study that says anything. A lot of studies from what you speak of are working with overweight sick people. Should I, as a healthy fit person, follow rules given to obese people? Do you think they got that way eating potatoes and fruit? No they got that way by over eating processed junk food. It is really that simple.
    Last edited by statikcat; 11-26-2012 at 07:16 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by statikcat View Post
    Sorry, you are way off if you think an entire macro nutrient is harmful. This is massive misinformation. You realize vegetables are mostly carbs? You think sweet potato causes harm? Carbs are arguably as bad as fats if they are from bad food. Do you know how many people have perfectly fine cholesterol eating low fat? Do you think the African Olympic runners are loading on fat? Do they have high cholesterol?

    And if you get this info from simply reading a study you are probably misunderstanding it or the study is bad science. You can find a study that says anything. A lot of studies from what you speak of are working with overweight sick people. Do you think they got that way eating potatoes and fruit? No they got that way by over eating processed junk food. It is really that simple.
    Very true indeed, the Devil stick in overly processed salty/sweet junk food, the "evil food", that makes us overeat and get addicted to...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artbuc View Post
    Here is a post I found on another forum. Maybe I am eating too much protein?

    "Yes, protein is converted to glucose above and beyond your blood sugar needs if it there is no room in the muscles for the excess glucose (because you either eat too much protein or you don't exercise enough). I've seen it happen in my own body many times on ZC, since I started taking my BG.

    Unfortunately, although this is a great question, asking people's experience with this will not give you the most reliable answers unless they're actually checking BG - otherwise, there is no way to tell what's going on with BG. But yes, weight gain can be an indicator. Likely when you were eating higher protein and lower fat, your calories were just lower than when you increased fat by a lot, Kristelle, and that's why your weight was lower.

    I had a chronically high BG on a zero-carb diet because I wasn't yet exercising the way I do now, and the glucose had nowhere to go if I consumed more than about 80 g protein a day. Now that I weightlift, my body needs more like 130 g of protein to support my lean mass, but if I exceed that, I get high BG, even with exercise, (unless I do something especially vigorous or lengthy, like do a 2-hour hike, etc.)."
    Let me know if you do the protein-only (and fat-only) test. Also, have you been given a glucose tolerance test by a physician? Type-2 diabetics will produce a significant insulin response to a protein only meal. They don't have a sufficient insulin response to pull free amino acids out of their blood fast enough, so gluconeogenesis proceeds quickly to get rid of them. Of course, the same blunted insulin response leaves them unable to get rid of the resulting glucose, too. I'm going to attach an image showing some data from a paper describing this response in diabetic patients. These patients have high fasting glucose levels (average ~180), and it spikes to anywhere from 200-300 after eating some steak with no carbs. Your fasting glucose seems normal, but your response (increase of ~40) after a low carb meal seems possible given this data. I'm not a clinician, so I don't know exactly what this means for you (assuming my hypothesis is correct), but it doesn't seem good. Hopefully it will improve with time spent eating clean food. The good news is that a brief spike to 140 after a meal is not high enough to do damage itself, it is just a bad sign of underlying problems.
    Glucose response.jpg

  5. #25
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    Guys, it's not as simple as "eat good carbs" and "eliminate bad carbs." Yes some carbs are better than others, but they all still spike blood sugar and can lead to weight gain. And NONE of you have brought up the fact that some folks are more sensitive (IE me) to carbs than others. So far you have treated the issue as if everyone processes them exactly the same way and they impact everyone the same. This is not true, and individual carb intake from all sources should vary by individual given their level of sensitivity.

    The problem with the term "good" vs. "bad" is that it doesn't allow for variences and assumes "that carb is good, you can eat as much of it as you want." "That carb is bad, never eat it."

    You can still go overboard, even on the good carbs, and cause weight gain. I can't even be trusted with squash and sweet potatoes.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    You can still go overboard, even on the good carbs, and cause weight gain. I can't even be trusted with squash and sweet potatoes.
    Hey Drumroll - Not trying to get too personal or anything, but have you ever had a problem with substance abuse or gambling? There is a link I have been reading about in cannaboid receptors in the brain firing on certain foods which gives the same effect as getting the munchies while smoking pot or the rush that gamblers get. I think there were a few other hormones involved as well.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by statikcat View Post
    Sorry, you are way off if you think an entire macro nutrient is harmful. You realize vegetables are mostly carbs? You think sweet potato causes harm? Carbs are arguably as bad as fats if they are from bad food. Do you know how many people have perfectly fine cholesterol eating low fat? Do you think the African Olympic runners are loading on fat? Do they have high cholesterol?

    And if you get this info from simply reading a study you are probably misunderstanding it or the study is bad science. You can find a study that says anything. A lot of studies from what you speak of are working with overweight sick people. Should I, as a healthy fit person, follow rules given to obese people? Do you think they got that way eating potatoes and fruit? No they got that way by over eating processed junk food. It is really that simple.
    I doubt the study was incorrect, I don't doubt I misunderstood it tho.

    How about this one The straight dope on cholesterol
    "The role of sugar"
    My belief was that all carbs are broken down into sugar.

    Let me know ur take on it pls

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scientist View Post
    Let me know if you do the protein-only (and fat-only) test. Also, have you been given a glucose tolerance test by a physician? Type-2 diabetics will produce a significant insulin response to a protein only meal. They don't have a sufficient insulin response to pull free amino acids out of their blood fast enough, so gluconeogenesis proceeds quickly to get rid of them. Of course, the same blunted insulin response leaves them unable to get rid of the resulting glucose, too. I'm going to attach an image showing some data from a paper describing this response in diabetic patients. These patients have high fasting glucose levels (average ~180), and it spikes to anywhere from 200-300 after eating some steak with no carbs. Your fasting glucose seems normal, but your response (increase of ~40) after a low carb meal seems possible given this data. I'm not a clinician, so I don't know exactly what this means for you (assuming my hypothesis is correct), but it doesn't seem good. Hopefully it will improve with time spent eating clean food. The good news is that a brief spike to 140 after a meal is not high enough to do damage itself, it is just a bad sign of underlying problems.
    Glucose response.jpg
    Yikes, my 1 hr postprandial went up 24 points after a protein only meal, just like these seriously diabetic folks. Sent you a PM with details as this is getting off the good carb - bad carb topic.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingofturtles View Post
    I doubt the study was incorrect, I don't doubt I misunderstood it tho.

    How about this one The straight dope on cholesterol
    "The role of sugar"
    My belief was that all carbs are broken down into sugar.

    Let me know ur take on it pls
    All carbs are converted to glucose, not sugar. A sugar molecule is a glucose molecule bonded to a fructose molecule.

    Good carbs are fruits and vegetables, both of which have slow absorption rates. The carbs to watch for are the processed ones (as others have mentioned).

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Hey Drumroll - Not trying to get too personal or anything, but have you ever had a problem with substance abuse or gambling? There is a link I have been reading about in cannaboid receptors in the brain firing on certain foods which gives the same effect as getting the munchies while smoking pot or the rush that gamblers get. I think there were a few other hormones involved as well.
    Nope, never been addicted to anything in my life, neither a substance or an activity.

    Never even smoked a thing in my life, not once.

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