Low Carb and Thyroid Function page 5

[Paleobird]

Not trying to pick a fight, I have a sincere question:

This thread was created for the purpose of gathering information from people who have had experience with thyroid issues and low carb. Why are you going out of your way to post studies that claim there isn't a link and repeatedly thanking people who are saying they personally haven't had problems?

Clearly, this is an issue that some people are struggling with, and just because you aren't, that doesn't invalidate everyone else's experience.

As Cori said, there is a difference between having experience with a pre-existing thyroid issue that was definitely not helped by low carbing and the persistent yet totally unfounded mythology that low carb somehow causes thyroid problems.

Your experiences are very valid. No one is saying otherwise. I just don't want people who could benefit greatly from low carb to be scared away from it by fear mongering that is not based on science.

[Artbuc]

I just don't want people who could benefit greatly from low carb to be scared away from it by fear mongering that is not based on science.

Paleobird, it is so hard to know what and whom to trust among all of the high profile folks making a living off nutrition and health. Do you think Kresser is simply misinformed or just angling to make more money, like he is doing right now with his $149 Cholesterol Course? Thanks.

[Paleobird]

Paleobird, it is so hard to know what and whom to trust among all of the high profile folks making a living off nutrition and health. Do you think Kresser is simply misinformed or just angling to make more money, like he is doing right now with his $149 Cholesterol Course? Thanks.

I have no idea what goes on in the mind of Chris Kresser. He is often described as "a clinician" but really he is an acupuncturist and expert in Eastern Medicine. Not that that is a bad thing. Just sayin' that just because something is "eastern" does not make it valid. Eastern medicine is what espouses tiger testicles and rhino horn as cures for infertility and impotence. Also the ability to stick needles into a patient's body thereby causing a release of endorphins which does greatly help with many bodily pain situations does not make one an expert in physiology or biochemistry.

His blog is slick and it is definitely "monetized" with his payed "programs" and supplements but, hey, I'm not going to knock him for that as our own beloved Mark does the same.

All that being what it is, the simple fact is that T3 production does go down in response to lowering carbs but this is normal and natural because less T3 is needed with a low carb diet. This lowering of T3 can (not does or will, but CAN) cause problems for someone who already has a thyroid disorder. Eating more carbs will not cure the thyroid problem but it may mask the symptoms for a while.

Bottom line, the thyroid is a very complex mechanism. I would rather trust mine to an endocrinologist than an acupuncturist.

[emmie]

I would like to second Paleobird's comment about 'fear mongering.' I am constantly reading posts from people who are eating low carb and having a positive experience but worried that it is somehow destroying their thyroid. That's based entirely on the type of misinformation that is promoted by people who have a little information but no real knowledge.

I find it incredible that people tend to believe Internet postings or blogs from people with no real credentials. Unfortunately, claims like Kresser's can sound reliable (low carb lowers T3)--but the uninformed reader doesn't know that 1) it's a natural bodily change because the higher T3 isn't necessary with low carb; 2) it is not a permanent change--in a healthy person, the thyroid hormones are self-regulating, depending on the needs of the person.

For example, researchers were astounded some years ago when they noticed that critically ill patients in hospitals who had no thyroid problems had VERY low T3 levels. They wondered whether this was impeding recovery. Further research showed that this was an activity of the body's immune system that was actually promoting healing (in ways that scientists still don't fully understand), and that T3 levels returned to normal once the individual had recovered from the illness.

Since I'm hypothyroid and regularly checked by my endo, I run some of these 'myths' that seem plausible by him, and he is aware of the nonsense on the Internet because, he tells me, patients are always asking him about things they read that 'scare' them but aren't true medically.

[Artbuc]

I have no idea what goes on in the mind of Chris Kresser. He is often described as "a clinician" but really he is an acupuncturist and expert in Eastern Medicine. Not that that is a bad thing. Just sayin' that just because something is "eastern" does not make it valid. Eastern medicine is what espouses tiger testicles and rhino horn as cures for infertility and impotence. Also the ability to stick needles into a patient's body thereby causing a release of endorphins which does greatly help with many bodily pain situations does not make one an expert in physiology or biochemistry.

His blog is slick and it is definitely "monetized" with his payed "programs" and supplements but, hey, I'm not going to knock him for that as our own beloved Mark does the same.

All that being what it is, the simple fact is that T3 production does go down in response to lowering carbs but this is normal and natural because less T3 is needed with a low carb diet. This lowering of T3 can (not does or will, but CAN) cause problems for someone who already has a thyroid disorder. Eating more carbs will not cure the thyroid problem but it may mask the symptoms for a while.

Bottom line, the thyroid is a very complex mechanism. I would rather trust mine to an endocrinologist than an acupuncturist.

AMEN!! Your post prompted me to examine his credentials which he openly lays out in his autobio. With all due respect to Dr Kresser, how dare he pass himself off as a cholesterol expert or pontificate on the highly complex biochemistry of thyroid function? I am beginning to think Peter Attia is nothing more than a big blow-hard himself but at least he is a MD. In his cholesterol series he strongly and unequivocally said LDL-P is the ONLY thing that matters; however, in his "personal journey" blog written a couple years earlier, he talks about the importance of LDL particle size. I asked about this conflict. To his credit, he promptly answered. However, his answer was we really don't know because the science is unsettled. Well, if that is the case, why was he so adamant and unequivocal in his cholesterol series? Wow....

[magicmerl]

I am beginning to think Peter Attia is nothing more than a big blow-hard himself but at least he is a MD. In his cholesterol series he strongly and unequivocally said LDL-P is the ONLY thing that matters; however, in his "personal journey" blog written a couple years earlier, he talks about the importance of LDL particle size. I asked about this conflict. To his credit, he promptly answered. However, his answer was we really don't know because the science is unsettled. Well, if that is the case, why was he so adamant and unequivocal in his cholesterol series? Wow....

Yeah, Cholesterol is not a completely understood area. We still do know a bit. Just not the full picture. And the CW picture is definitely full of holes.

[Neckhammer]

There is an area that Chris Kresser studies called functional medicine. This does not make him an endocrinologist, but it does make him much more qualified to pontificate on complex biochemistry than your run of the mill acupuncturist. If you are interested in what this mode of health care is see here Institute for Functional Medicine > Home.

[Artbuc]

Yeah, Cholesterol is not a completely understood area. We still do know a bit. Just not the full picture. And the CW picture is definitely full of holes.

I guess what really bothers me is folks like Attia, Dayspring, Dall, etc ridicule CW and self-confidently espouse their LDL-P and/or LDL particle size theories as though they are self-evidently true. Then you find out that the science supporting these anti-CW theories is so sketchy it makes CW look more than credible. The reason I started this thread was wondering about the connection between VLC and CVD. That is, VLC down regulates thyroid which reduces LDL receptor activity which increase LDL serum residence time which causes LDL to oxidize and form plaque (according to Masterjohn and Kresser). I guess I have to pick my poison and I am picking VLC to manage my BG.

[Paleobird]

There is an area that Chris Kresser studies called functional medicine. This does not make him an endocrinologist, but it does make him much more qualified to pontificate on complex biochemistry than your run of the mill acupuncturist. If you are interested in what this mode of health care is see here Institute for Functional Medicine > Home.

OK. While I agree with their holistic, patient centered approach, that is still only a "certification" available over the internet. That is not the same thing as going to medical school.

[marcadav]

Chris Masterjohn and Chris Kresser say there is ample evidence that restricting carbohydrates can adversely affect thyroid function which in turn can down regulate LDL receptor activity. Kresser says he has had patients who were low carber's and exhibited the classic symptoms of hair falling out, etc. Symptoms usualy resolved when carbs were added back to the diet.

I am curious if any of you VLCarber's have suffered from decreased thyroid function? If yes, how did you know you had a problem and what did you do about it? Thanks.

I provided this info in another post a while ago:
My understanding:
The possible issue with VLC for some people does not impact the function of the thyroid. It can impact thyroid hormone conversion. Thyroidmanager.org* suggests that people need a minimum of 50 grams/day of glucose for good T4( storage hormone)to T3( active hormone) conversion. With this in mind, ingesting less than 50 grams of carbs/day long term MAY negatively impact conversion.

I recall reading somewhere (can't remember where) that an issue with VLC and conversion is person specific- not impacted at all, impacted quickly with VLC, impacted after long term VLC or something in between.

That being said, other things can impact conversion as well:
1. Not eating enough
2. Low selenium. 200mcg/day is needed
3. Low Vitamin D
4. Low ferritin
5. Stress
* Effects of the Environment, Chemicals and Drugs on Thyroid Function – Thyroid Disease Manager
scroll down to Nutrition
The Non-Thyroidal Illness Syndrome – Thyroid Disease Manager
scroll down to Low T3 states

My thoughts--If you are VLC and feeling/functioning fine/symptom free then VLC most likely isn't an issue for you. If, however, you are suffering from hypothyroid symptoms-- fatigue, cold intolerance, weight gain etc. I would make sure the things listed above are optimal. Then, if symptoms persist, I would look at diet- am I have eating enough calories and I'd experiment with increasing my carb level.

If after doing all that, symptoms still remain I think it's time for testing-- Thyroid( TSH, FT4, FT3, antibodies) Vitamin D, ferritin. Low T3 issues generally present with truly normal TSH, normal FT4 and low FT3.

I also do not think discussing VLC and it's possible impact on thyroid hormone conversion is fear mongering. I see it as educational. Each person is different. How we as individuals react to specific foods, macros, etc. is not "one size fits all". The more information we have the better choices we can make, helping us have the best life we can.