Low Carb and Thyroid Function page 3

[Daydreamer]

I get hair loss, cold extremities, fatigue and anxiety if I stay very low carb, many on this forum do.
A lot of people need starch or sugar for optimal t3 conversion or they suffer from Euthyroid sickness syndrome. It has nothing to do with a diseased thyroid, it's just a down regulation that many people don't tolerate and experience hypothyroid like symptoms.

Just so you know, hormonal imbalances whether they are severe or not don't always come from diseased glands.
The mechanism is very complex and implies your pituitary gland is responding normally.
It's more often than not the case at all.
I tend to think we all have a certain degree of "dysfunction" (like many different standards from an individual to another), the problem is when it becomes a source of suffering and handicap.

T4 to T3 conversion is affected by carbs consumption, but it SHOULDN'T get to a point where you suffer from it, THAT is a sign of non optimal functionning human body.

[Artbuc]

I thought this was a good debate. My respect for Rosedale is much higher compared to when I heard him hawking his products on a PBS fundraiser. My primary concern is the affect, as described by Chris Masterjohn, of down regulated thyroid on LDL receptor activity.

VIDEO: My ‘Safe Starches’ Panel At #AHS12 « Jimmy Moore's Livin' La Vida Low Carb Blog

[Timthetaco]

I read that linked article and a bit of the discussion, and I'm more in line with Paul Jaminet.

I think it's a cop-out to throw out all the anecdotal evidence of euthyroid sick syndrome and the associated quality of life issues (hair loss, cold intolerance, fatigue) in low carb dieters and dismiss them as "doing it wrong." Even if the quality of life issues brought about by low carb are more a result of calories than carbohydrates, it's less than helpful to tell a low carb or ketogenic dieter to simply eat more and their symptoms will go away, for a couple reasons. First, even mild ketosis is extremely satiating. You can't tell people to reformulate their diet and "do low carb better" when they don't feel like eating more. Secondly, if their quality of life can be improved simply by eating a potato instead of eating ever increasing amounts of fat or protein (probably begrudgingly, and it would increase satiety even more), what the hell is the harm?

If you want to talk about memes that need to die, how about "You need to reduce insulin spikes" or "Blood sugar above 140 mg/dl has been shown to be dangerous."

As far as Chris Kresser's motives, here's one: He's a clinician. He's motivated to help his patients feel better and improve their quality life, with something as simple as starch. The bastard.

[j3nn]

As far as Chris Kresser's motives, here's one: He's a clinician. He's motivated to help his patients feel better and improve their quality life, with something as simple as starch. The bastard.

I like this. Your whole post is good, but stop being commonsensical, there wont be anything to argue about on the Internet if it catches on.

[cori93437]

Thanks and I am glad you are doing better. How many carbs were you eating when you had symptoms and how many are you eating now daily? Kresser says everyone is different so I know your carb numbers will not translate to me but it would be helpful to know as a reference point. I assume you do not have to worry about high blood sugar? I am in a box because I can not eat more than 8-10 grams of carbs without having my 1 hour BG exceed 140.

I also stay LC, even VLC for medical reasons... though mine are different from yours (neurological).

Doing so has helped me immensely, and I have suffered none of the negative side effects that others have noted... and that is even though I have also often eaten at very low caloric levels as well. (I avoid eating chronically low calorie by adding fat, but my caloric intake is still low enough for slow steady weight loss.)
No hair loss at all.

I'm sometimes cold, and had some real trouble with fatigue for a while, but those are both specific side effects of a medication I take (serious potassium/mineral depletion)... and the fatigue has decreased as I have been able to decrease the dosage due to healing from following my diet properly.

I do not track/count my Carbs strictly, but I am familiar enough with amounts in food to assure you that most days I definitely fall into VLC range.
Others are certainly LC... even on a "treat" day when I'm having a HUGE splurge (read: a slice of real cheesecake or a small premium ice cream/frozen custard) of carbs most people would probably still consider me LC... Well >100gm per day.

Fatty meats an vegetables are my mainstays.
Leaner meats make appearances some days, and I add fat. Always.
I have one piece of fresh, raw, fruit a couple of days a week as a treat.
About the starchiest vegetable I will consume is winter squash or pumpkin.

From what I have read on hair loss issues in regards to LC and weight loss in general... there is a higher correlation between LF/LC weightloss and hairloss issues than LC and hairloss.

It seems that since the issue shows up in all weight loss circles blaming it on a specific LC mechanism is a bit silly. It's more of a caloric issue than anything else.
For people with an existing thyroid issue this my not hold true however... people are complicated things.


The only person I have ever known actually who experienced hair loss from dieting was doing LF/LC and chronic cardio. Yeah, she crashed a bunch of weight off. Her hair fell out in clumps, and she ended up crashing her gallbladder too... she ended up in the hospital and had it removed.
She has since regained a good deal of weight... aren't "crash diets" great.

[emmie]

I'm hypothyroid (Hashimoto's), and I find all the misinformation about carbs/thyroid to be incredibly annoying.

First of all, hypo 'symptoms' can be symptoms of many, many other things in a person. No individual gets all the symptoms, and someone with an array of 'thyroid' symptoms can have a very healthy thyroid. For example, often women who are 'dieting' will suffer hair loss because they fail to eat sufficient protein. And a person who is 'tired a lot' or 'can't lose weight' doesn't necessarily have thyroid problems. If you are actually hypothyroid (thyroid isn't producing sufficient hormones), eating carbs isn't going to 'cure' you. But if you have some other dysfunction that's causing the symptoms, it's certainly possible for a dietary change to effect improvement in symptoms.

Since one aspect of Hashimoto's that I suffer from is flawed conversion of T4 to T3, the notion that we need carbs for that is ludicrous. Yes. the body uses glucose during the conversion process, but that's because the body functions on glucose to maintain itself. The conversion of T4 to T3 is like any other bodily function, and the body will use part of its energy source to accomplish that conversion. No one has to eat a 'special' diet to enable the conversion.

I happen to be a person who is extremely carb sensitive, and I do best at about 20g carbs or fewer. Because of my age and metabolic situation, I also have to eat very low calorie ("low' by standard measurements, but sufficient for my own body). My endo knows this and, if fact, applauds my WOE. Since he does a full blood panel every 4 months, it's apparent that my low-carb eating is very healthy for my particular body. At age 71, the only Rx I take are my supplemental thyroid hormones. My BP and blood glucose are all excellent.

[Artbuc]

If you want to talk about memes that need to die, how about "You need to reduce insulin spikes" or "Blood sugar above 140 mg/dl has been shown to be dangerous."

I would be the happiest person in the world if I did not have to worry about my BG going above 140. Can you cite some references that show no harm above 140? Thanks.

[Neckhammer]

I would be the happiest person in the world if I did not have to worry about my BG going above 140. Can you cite some references that show no harm above 140? Thanks.

Since he likes Jaminet it may be fitting that I quote him from his book...." After eating carbohydrated, blood glucose should rise into the 120's to 140's and fall into the normal range in a few hours" ....goes on to state "NERVE DAMAGE OCCURS WHEN BLOOD SUGARS RISE OVER 140 mg/dl" (all caps as he had it in his book). He gets this from a couple study on peripheral neuropathy "Increased prevalence of impaired glucose tolerance in patients with painful sensory neuropathy" and "Prevalence of polyneuropathy in pre-diabetes and diabetes is associated with abdominal obesity and macroangiopathy".

[Artbuc]

Since he likes Jaminet it may be fitting that I quote him from his book...." After eating carbohydrated, blood glucose should rise into the 120's to 140's and fall into the normal range in a few hours" ....goes on to state "NERVE DAMAGE OCCURS WHEN BLOOD SUGARS RISE OVER 140 mg/dl" (all caps as he had it in his book). He gets this from a couple study on peripheral neuropathy "Increased prevalence of impaired glucose tolerance in patients with painful sensory neuropathy" and "Prevalence of polyneuropathy in pre-diabetes and diabetes is associated with abdominal obesity and macroangiopathy".

Thanks. I have seen many credible studies which indicate permanent nerve damage and destruction of beta cells begins above 140. Nuff said.

[Neckhammer]

I'm hypothyroid (Hashimoto's), and I find all the misinformation about carbs/thyroid to be incredibly annoying.

First of all, hypo 'symptoms' can be symptoms of many, many other things in a person. No individual gets all the symptoms, and someone with an array of 'thyroid' symptoms can have a very healthy thyroid. For example, often women who are 'dieting' will suffer hair loss because they fail to eat sufficient protein. And a person who is 'tired a lot' or 'can't lose weight' doesn't necessarily have thyroid problems. If you are actually hypothyroid (thyroid isn't producing sufficient hormones), eating carbs isn't going to 'cure' you. But if you have some other dysfunction that's causing the symptoms, it's certainly possible for a dietary change to effect improvement in symptoms.

Since one aspect of Hashimoto's that I suffer from is flawed conversion of T4 to T3, the notion that we need carbs for that is ludicrous. Yes. the body uses glucose during the conversion process, but that's because the body functions on glucose to maintain itself. The conversion of T4 to T3 is like any other bodily function, and the body will use part of its energy source to accomplish that conversion. No one has to eat a 'special' diet to enable the conversion.

I happen to be a person who is extremely carb sensitive, and I do best at about 20g carbs or fewer. Because of my age and metabolic situation, I also have to eat very low calorie ("low' by standard measurements, but sufficient for my own body). My endo knows this and, if fact, applauds my WOE. Since he does a full blood panel every 4 months, it's apparent that my low-carb eating is very healthy for my particular body. At age 71, the only Rx I take are my supplemental thyroid hormones. My BP and blood glucose are all excellent.

Great points.