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Thread: Diet works or it doesn't work, what does that mean? page 3

  1. #21
    BestBetter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crofter View Post
    BestBetter
    So nice to see someone on here for whom Primal was not the answer, and yet still supports it as a valid lifestyle. Sounds like some extra research on your part has paid dividends!
    I have a friend of African descent who tried primal eating. It did not work for her as she seems to need more carbs, mostly starches. She sticks to a largely primal diet but replaces some fat with carbs and all is well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirlot View Post
    I must say the Perfect Health Diet seems pretty primal just including some starches which many here do. Glad you found a version of the Ancestral Diet that works.


    Thanks!

    Thing is, if I wasn't diagnosed with such a serious neurological autoimmune disorder (MS), and I had originally embarked on this way of eating just for weight loss reasons, I could see throwing in the towel, going back to junk food, and declaring that it doesn't work.

    But in my case, if I did that, I'd probably be in a wheelchair in the near future. Even with such motivation, I definitely had my share of moments of wanting to give up because the healthier I ate, the worse I got, and the more difficult and excruciating life became due to food restrictions...luckily I'm stubborn enough and I also have a husband who won't let me give up in those moments of desperation that I did finally figure out how to make some changes to make it work.

    And like I said, I'm really happy for all the people with glowing success stories, but I think that hearing over and over about people's drastic improvements can be really disheartening to people who aren't seeing such results.

    I do believe that some kind of ancestral diet is ultimately the best way of eating, but I've also increased my sugar intake pretty substantially (no HFCS), and the sky hasn't fallen, I'm not having uncontrollable blood sugar swings, I'm both feeling better AND losing that extra fat I gained on primal...yet all I see day after day are anti-sugar posts, likely by people who don't realize that there is a big difference between consuming actual organic, non-GMO sugars and fruit and tubers vs. HFCS, rancid omega 6 seed oils, GMO gluten and corn, and industrial flavors, colors, and preservatives. I, myself, fell victim to the sugar phobia for a while, but now that I've eliminated the real offenders from my diet, I can see first hand that sugar itself is not to blame.

    It really breaks my heart to see some people failing to thrive on a low-carb primal diet, and the feedback they're given is to eliminate that last piece of fruit they're eating per day or to eat excessive amounts of fat at the expense of protein, healthy carbs, fruit, and an overall well-rounded healthy diet. I don't blame them for giving up and saying that the diet doesn't work.
    Last edited by BestBetter; 11-12-2012 at 01:37 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by KathyH View Post
    How do you figure that in a long haul this is the proper diet for health benefits? What are the measures and what is the evidence?
    Does anyone else smell a troll?

    I'll give you the short version:

    long Haul: The current conventional American diet came into being about 40 years ago. Dwarf hybrid wheat, HFCS in everything, corn in the CAFO's, government subsidized soybean everything. We've already had the long haul.
    measures: BMI, incidence of diabetes, cancer rates, rates of GERD, rates of heart disease. Cholesterol is still too complex to be a good marker.
    evidence: All the markers are headed into the bad direction over the long haul that we've already had.

    If you want more details, read the book, or more on this website. It's been laid out multiple times.

    So, does that mean that one has to feel bad to start with in order to decide whether the diet is good or bad for them?
    Evidently you've never broken a bad habit.

    I am not sure what government you have in mind. Are you assuming that all governmets have identical guidelines? Isn't a diet really more cultural than governmental? I am not defending any government here, I never really gave it a though what a given government recommends. Isn't the cultural consumption of food predating governments anyway? If one is not following some governmental guidelines what criteria of improving ones health can one employ to be sure that a certain diet is beneficial to ones health in a long haul?
    You're using complex language in order to trap us into saying something mildly contradictory so that you can blast the diet and its followers as fools. I won't take the bait. Look, it's obvious that decades of evidence will you not convince onto this diet. Similarly, all your honey-tongued questions and logic are not going to convince me off of this diet.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    What a great analogy!

    I completely agree with the instant gratification thing; most people want a quick fix, to pop a pill, to drop x number of pounds within a set amount of time and be done with it. And probably many people who are saying that it doesn't work for them didn't get this kind of instant gratification, or aren't willing to accept huge changes (like sourcing good quality foods, cooking, eating out less, moving around more, etc...)

    But, I think there is another group of people who actually suffered some negative health consequences as a result of a low-carb high-fat primal diet. I would put myself in this group. I adopted this way of eating to improve my health, and I got significantly worse over the course of a year and a half.

    1) My IBS became debilitating (from the increase in insoluble fiber from all those veggies, among other reasons).

    2) My hypothyroid symptoms got significantly worse (increased hair loss, feeling really cold all the time, weight gain, chronic low grade depression, mood instability, extreme fatigue, diminishing sleep quality, etc...)

    My overall health was gradually declining as a result of low-carb primal, not improving. I was unable to gain any strength (for a whole year I could not increase ANY of my weights in the gym), and my personal relationships were seriously suffering. Had I not made some simple dietary changes, I probably would have ended up getting divorced from my husband, which is how unstable I became at times.

    Now that I'm eating more Perfect Health Diet (similar to primal but includes much more starches/carbs in general) with some Ray Peat tweeks (more sugar, less muscle meat, etc...), my health continues to make steady improvements. I'm a completely different person now, and it happened almost overnight with the changes in my diet.

    So for me, Primal did not work. I'm glad it has for others.
    That really is a good book, Perfect Health Diet, I learned a lot.

  4. #24
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    Some individuals (but not all) want a specific result from their diet, if they get it then their diet "worked", if they don't, then it didn't.

    99% of the time, the desired result is fat loss, but not always.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    Does anyone else smell a troll?
    Heh. I could see the troll just from the username, without reading any of the post.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by KathyH View Post
    How is one determining whether a diet works or it doesn't work? I hear many times people say "I tired this diet and it didn't work for me". How does one determine that? Don't you have to wait 30 years or so to see if you haven't developed some disease that you would normally expect to develop? There is no miracle after a month or a year. So why so many claim this or that diet is not working for them after trying to eat different for 2 months or half a year or two? What's the timeframe criteria?
    Well I literally did wait 30 years to finally face that what I believed was a wholesome diet had not worked for me. I had never fallen for the margarine-is-better-than-butter line, so I simply omitted both. I cooked from scratch and shunned most artificially processed products, and barely touched alcohol. Yes I could see I may have done better than those who smoked or took drugs, but apart from that I was lethargic, bloated, moody, unfit and becoming more so. I was lucky not to have major issues but my weight, cholesterol and blood pressure were not where they should be, and I certainly didn't have the slim figure and vibrant health I should have had if my diet had "worked".

    Why did it take so long to realise the truth? I don't know. Now after nearly 5 months of changing my diet I can easily say I have found something that is working for me. In fact I could tell within days that it was going to work and within a few weeks that I would be able to stick with it as a lifestyle. I guess I still have to wait and see whether I am going to get heart disease or not, but my weight and blood pressure have moved in the right direction already so I take that as a positive sign.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    You're using complex language in order to trap us into saying something mildly contradictory so that you can blast the diet and its followers as fools. I won't take the bait. Look, it's obvious that decades of evidence will you not convince onto this diet. Similarly, all your honey-tongued questions and logic are not going to convince me off of this diet.
    English is not my first language so thanks for your compliment.
    I am not sure how your eating habits affect me so it's rather strange that you arrived at the conclusion that I would like to get you off this diet.
    Last edited by KathyH; 11-12-2012 at 08:37 PM.

  8. #28
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    History has a tendency to repeat itself!
    Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
    PS
    Don't forget to play!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    Thanks!

    Thing is, if I wasn't diagnosed with such a serious neurological autoimmune disorder (MS), and I had originally embarked on this way of eating just for weight loss reasons, I could see throwing in the towel, going back to junk food, and declaring that it doesn't work.

    But in my case, if I did that, I'd probably be in a wheelchair in the near future. Even with such motivation, I definitely had my share of moments of wanting to give up because the healthier I ate, the worse I got, and the more difficult and excruciating life became due to food restrictions...luckily I'm stubborn enough and I also have a husband who won't let me give up in those moments of desperation that I did finally figure out how to make some changes to make it work.

    And like I said, I'm really happy for all the people with glowing success stories, but I think that hearing over and over about people's drastic improvements can be really disheartening to people who aren't seeing such results.

    I do believe that some kind of ancestral diet is ultimately the best way of eating, but I've also increased my sugar intake pretty substantially (no HFCS), and the sky hasn't fallen, I'm not having uncontrollable blood sugar swings, I'm both feeling better AND losing that extra fat I gained on primal...yet all I see day after day are anti-sugar posts, likely by people who don't realize that there is a big difference between consuming actual organic, non-GMO sugars and fruit and tubers vs. HFCS, rancid omega 6 seed oils, GMO gluten and corn, and industrial flavors, colors, and preservatives. I, myself, fell victim to the sugar phobia for a while, but now that I've eliminated the real offenders from my diet, I can see first hand that sugar itself is not to blame.

    It really breaks my heart to see some people failing to thrive on a low-carb primal diet, and the feedback they're given is to eliminate that last piece of fruit they're eating per day or to eat excessive amounts of fat at the expense of protein, healthy carbs, fruit, and an overall well-rounded healthy diet. I don't blame them for giving up and saying that the diet doesn't work.
    +1 Good post. I saw improvements increasing honey, maple syrup, dried fruits, dates, etc
    Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 11-13-2012 at 01:49 AM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    Does anyone else smell a troll?
    Check out her other posts and you will see she is obviously a troll and not nearly as clever as she thinks she is.

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