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Thread: The Potato Diet....criticisms and metabolic theory page 6

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    I'm sorry you were offended by my post about "why so many crash diets" or whatever the title. I actually was disturbed that there were 4 or 5 potato diet topics and 2 African mango topics right on the first page and it was like WTF? Whatever happened to just eating nutritionally dense food in adequate portions and following the PB Fitness to whatever ability you have?
    No worries. I guess I took issue because all the things ppl try, are all hacks or "fads", liking fasting or high/low this or that, yet no one was calling that silly. And had the tator stuff not been posted, I would still be stuck spinning my wheels. And on that fad thread, ppl say all you have to do is eat this and this, and when you ask ppl what exactly do you need to do, Or like you said, "in adequate portions" the standard answer is 'well it is different for everyone, you just have to experiment" And when someone finally posted, okay try to eat this in this portion, some ppl are questioning it. If it had been called, try this for a carb re-feed, ppl wouldnt have thought twice about it and probably many ppl, like myself, would not have even read it. I didnt think I needed to carb refeed. I thought I was just suppose to eat this one way and stick it out, be patient, give it time - cuz it works when you just follow the plan.

    And it was my missing piece of the puzzle. Now re-reading stuff, I am seeing that many ppl dont stay on LC/HF, for some it is only temporary (egads! another fad/crash diet!) That they have initial weight loss but then have to increase some carbs. That part was not sinking in for me. And then viola! increase your carbs by eating tators! It was just what I needed.

    Okay that is not what all this thread is about, and I get that. I get it is the issue with starches and insulin and muscle cannibalism all that good sciency stuff. And it is good to question and voice concerns. It is not just about bashing though it might feel like it sometimes.
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  2. #52
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    Alan, FatBellyFrog, and Zanna- thanks for reporting back with your experiences regarding cravings. Interesting to read.

  3. #53
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    From the Hyperlipid post on page 5:

    I did some interpretations of a few paragraphs of the article. What do you think? That was fun.
    My interpretations in bold italics.

    "As an aside I personally wonder it might be the ectopic lipid supplies typically found in muscle, liver and visceral adipocytes which might still be available for metabolism by the tissues when exogenous supplies are shut down. It reminds me of how metformin most likely depletes ectopic lipid to improve insulin sensitivity, despite having complex I inhibition as its primary action. You need lipid from somewhere. So reducing FFA supply by inhibiting systemic lipolysis may well be a route to lower fasting insulin levels. Especially if you are not far in to metabolic syndrome.

    If you do not have severe metabolic syndrome, if you eat zero fat, the fat needed for body functions comes from the fat found in your muscles, liver, and visceral fat. The diabetes drug, Metformin, also depletes these fat stores while improving insulin sensitivity. Reducing fat intake may help make you insulin sensitive.


    Once ectopic lipid becomes depleted then lipolysis would accelerate in peripheral adipocytes as systemic insulin resistance falls and fasting insulin levels too, which might be what was reported as progressively increasing weight loss by Chris Voight. Insulin levels would be low, especially during fasting, and appetite low at the same time due to hypoinsulinaemia facilitated lipolysis, much as appetite is low under LC induced hypoinsulinaemic eating. There is more than one way to skin a.... Oops let's not complete that phrase!

    Once all the freely available fat is gone, your body will use the other fat sources like subcutaneous fat. This would explain why Chris Voight continued to lose weight on an all-potato diet. On an all-potato diet, you would expect low fasting insulin and low appetite. This same scenario is noted in Low Carb eating. There is more than one way to skin a [I'm guessing he wanted to say 'potato']

    What would happen to a healthy person under these conditions, long term, is anyone's guess. Chis Voight gave up after a few weeks when weight loss became alarmingly rapid. But we know from the crucial study by the vegan apologist Barnard that, for diabetic people at least, that a long term, whole food, low sucrose and low fat diet is a complete disaster, once the initial weight loss ceases.

    What would happen if we continued to eat an all-potato diet forever? Chris Voight quit after a few weeks because he was losing too much weight. A Vegan study showed that a low sucrose, low fat, long-term diet is disastrous for diabetics.

    This is playing with fire (possibly near literally, at the mitochondrial level) if you are a diabetic. Please don't go there.

    Don't do a long-term potato diet if you are diabetic.

    But the physiology of weight loss on ultra low fat diets is basically comprehensible, especially once you look at lipids and superoxide at the ETC level, and what the body needs to function effectively. Running your metabolism on pure glucose would induce, theoretically, an infinite glucose sensitivity and low fasting insulin. If we do reductio ad absurdum you would end up with no fat stores and experience death from hypoglycaemia if you ever depleted your glycogen stores. Mitochondria like (saturated) fatty acids. Fatty acids keep them in control."

    An all-potato diet is pretty simple: Running your metabolism on pure glucose would create unlimited glucose sensitivity and low fasting insulin. If we extend the experiment to it's end, we deplete ALL the body's fat and you die of low blood glucose.

  4. #54
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    I haven't tried the all-potato diet, and I don't plan on trying it because I'm not out to lose weight.

    But, after I saw the potato diet thread, and since my boyfriend loves them, I decided to add potatoes back into my diet. I read an article once about our bodies being adept at digesting foods our ancestors ate. Like, our more recent than Grok ancestors. I'm half Irish--not to mention a former french-fry lover--so it makes sense that my body likes potatoes. They're quick, easy, tasty, they fill me right up... I cut mine into wedges a little thicker than chips and fry them in coconut oil with a bit of salt. Delish.

    I think our bodies like having a few carbs to play around with--it keeps us from entering starvation mode, so our metabolism doesn't slow way down... maybe that has something to do with why eating only potatoes speeds weight loss? Or maybe there's a lot of folks with some Irish blood on these forums!

    Also, re: protein... I bet a lot of people here won't agree with my thoughts, but I think most of us eat a lot more protein than we need. Or we work out too much, creating an artificial need for more protein... I am probably one of the less active users here, I walk or bike a few times a week, do yoga regularly, lift when I have a chance, and occasionally run sprints on the track at the local high school... I weigh 125ish at 5'5" and would guess that I eat around 60g of protein a day, usually in the form of 1-2 servings of meat/eggs, plus lots of veggies, some nuts and/or dark chocolate, and a bit of fruit.

    My approach to primal is to do what feels right to you... forget other people's input when it goes against your instincts. If you feel good eating only potatoes (I would not feel good on a no or low-fat diet, if I don't eat fat for awhile I almost always end up either crying or close to it...) then keep doing it, if you feel good doing something else, do that. There's no reason we should be getting on each others' case!
    Last edited by 2ndChance; 11-12-2012 at 10:43 AM.

  5. #55
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    Sabine, you're welcome

    Otzi, cheers for the breakdown.

    It does seem the science is pointing to the near total lack of fat as a primary driver behind the results. As a low-carb advocate for many years and now a "primal" kind of guy, it seems positively bizarre for me to be even considering a 'low-fat diet' but it it works..?


    AC

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanC View Post

    Otzi, cheers for the breakdown.

    It does seem the science is pointing to the near total lack of fat as a primary driver behind the results. As a low-carb advocate for many years and now a "primal" kind of guy, it seems positively bizarre for me to be even considering a 'low-fat diet' but it it works..?


    AC
    Which means that any food can be eaten in the absence of fat and the same result can be achieved... ? Is that what this study is indicating?
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
    SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    Which means that any food can be eaten in the absence of fat and the same result can be achieved... ? Is that what this study is indicating?
    Not really. It wouldn't work with just eating protein, since protein can't be used directly for energy--only carbs and fat can be used for energy. Protein contains the building blocks for cellular metabolism, ie. amino acids.

    However, this study does indicate that eating mainly fat or eating mainly starch would lead to the same end result...fat loss. People around here routinely do both and experience good results.

    What I like about the potato diet, is that potatoes are extremely satiating and contain all of the amino acids needed for cell functioning. I think the success of the potato diet is that you are immediately placed into a fat deficit and the body will immediately begin to strip fat from your body to get the fat it needs to function.

  8. #58
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    Here's my conundrum with this whole debate...

    FACT: If you have insulin (above a certain amount) circulating in your blood, fat won't be released from any fat cell.
    FACT: Low blood glucose leads to the release of fat from fat cells

    Theoretically, then, eating a ketogenic or VLC diet would create a condition where your insulin would never rise and fat would be constantly released from fat cells.

    On the other side, eating just potatoes for two weeks, you create huge insulin surges 2 or 3 times a day when you eat, stopping any fat loss from occurring during those times of increased insulin.

    In reality, while eating ketogenic or VLC, there is something else going on...Gluconeogenesis, a metabolic pathway that results in the generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate substrates. Your body produces all the glucose it needs, even creates a surplus, which can raise your fasting insulin levels and prevent release of fat from fat cells.

    In reality, while eating a short-term potato diet, the spike in insulin following the ingestion of the potatoes at mealtime, creates hyper-insulin sensitivity and quickly clears the blood of excess glucose, leaving nothing but body fat for energy.

    I don't think either method is optimal for the long-term, barring a medical condition (epilepsy, etc..) that requires a ketogenic diet for health reasons.
    Last edited by otzi; 11-12-2012 at 11:49 AM.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Here's my conundrum with this whole debate...

    FACT: If you have insulin (above a certain amount) circulating in your blood, fat won't be released from any fat cell.
    I haven't read much of the debate, but what happens then when you are depleted of glucose and glycogen and eat letís say some pure whey protein isolate that will make insulin skyrocketing? Glycogenesis from protein is a very slow ongoing process, as I understand, so the body can't get enough glucose from synthesizing amino acids fast enough. Where does the body get the rest of its energy from when there is not enough glucose/glycogen available?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Here's my conundrum with this whole debate...

    FACT: If you have insulin (above a certain amount) circulating in your blood, fat won't be released from any fat cell.
    Right, insulin suppresses lipolysis because its purpose is to get energy out of the blood and into tissues where it belongs. When you need energy again and you don't eat, your body releases fat from adipose tissue. Normal physiology. "High insulin" is only a problem in the context of hyperinsulinemia, which is brought about by insulin resistance, and I'm not aware of any evidence for the idea that if you eat too much starch, your pancreas simply gets tired of producing insulin and ends up breaking. That's low carb speculation.

    What I'm interested to know is just how much lean mass a person could lose doing this. If you're eating half your normal calories, obviously your body has to make up the difference, but it seems like it would be far more efficient to break down fat than deaminate protein for energy...

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