Page 23 of 23 FirstFirst ... 13212223
Results 221 to 227 of 227

Thread: The Potato Diet....criticisms and metabolic theory page 23

  1. #221
    badbunny's Avatar
    badbunny is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Posts
    329
    Primal Fuel
    Surely what seems to have been missed on these discussions...and excuse me if I have not read it as I have been speed reading most...is that Ray Cronise - who originally purported the 'eat potatoes for two weeks' was actually discussing it on a post regarding gut flora. The subsequent weight loss seems to be a by product of what is a search for optimising your gut bacteria, which arguably is very low in many people......

    just sayin'
    Perseverance is not a long race; it is many short races one after the other.
    Walter Elliot

    I am a horse for a single harness, not cut out for tandem or teamwork; for well I know that in order to attain any definite goal, it is imperative that one person do the thinking and the commanding. Albert Einstein

  2. #222
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,663
    Quote Originally Posted by badbunny View Post
    Surely what seems to have been missed on these discussions...and excuse me if I have not read it as I have been speed reading most...is that Ray Cronise - who originally purported the 'eat potatoes for two weeks' was actually discussing it on a post regarding gut flora. The subsequent weight loss seems to be a by product of what is a search for optimising your gut bacteria, which arguably is very low in many people......

    just sayin'
    You may or may not have seen Otzi's thread on resistant starch with this sorta concept. I don't think that we know enough about how to optimize gut flora to be honest. Of what I do know it seems to me that there is not going to be a cookie cutter approach. There are going to be different types of gut dysbiosis with different optimal protocols.

    For instance look at the SCD and GAPS program. Arguably, these are the most prominent and successfully used in restoring normal gut biome and activity. Starch is absolutely avoided in the first several levels (maybe the entire program actually). And this is all in the name of not feeding the microbes that feed on starch. These are said to be the most virulent of the gut. So instead you stick to monosacharrides that are easily absorbed and used rather than hanging out in the gut as fuel for the little buggers. At the same time your eating copious amounts of 24 hour yogurt and drinking plenty of bone broth to restore normal gut permiability and improve the biome.

    I'm not sure where starch will actually fall in. I have not seen many studies that A. Show a change and gut biome in response to diet (though there were a couple in mice) B. Show how those changes would benefit health rather than just being an acclimation to your current energy source. Be interesting for sure.

    One thing I do know is that up to 60% of fecal matter is gut bacteria. This is why a lot of low carbers "think" they are constipated. They don't feed the little buggers a ton, they don't reproduce a ton, and you don't poo a ton!
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 01-22-2013 at 07:21 AM.

  3. #223
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    You may or may not have seen Otzi's thread on resistant starch with this sorta concept. I don't think that we know enough about how to optimize gut flora to be honest. Of what I do know it seems to me that there is not going to be a cookie cutter approach. There are going to be different types of gut dysbiosis with different optimal protocols.

    For instance look at the SCD and GAPS program. Arguably, these are the most prominent and successfully used in restoring normal gut biome and activity. Starch is absolutely avoided in the first several levels (maybe the entire program actually). And this is all in the name of not feeding the microbes that feed on starch. These are said to be the most virulent of the gut. So instead you stick to monosacharrides that are easily absorbed and used rather than hanging out in the gut as fuel for the little buggers. At the same time your eating copious amounts of 24 hour yogurt and drinking plenty of bone broth to restore normal gut permiability and improve the biome.

    I'm not sure where starch will actually fall in. I have not seen many studies that A. Show a change and gut biome in response to diet (though there were a couple in mice) B. Show how those changes would benefit health rather than just being an acclimation to your current energy source. Be interesting for sure.

    One thing I do know is that up to 60% of fecal matter is gut bacteria. This is why a lot of low carbers "think" they are constipated. They don't feed the little buggers a ton, they don't reproduce a ton, and you don't poo a ton!
    These are important points Neckhammer. Your insides need the bacteria to break down starch IF you are going to continue to eat starch. But are they really needed otherwise? Yes, Otzi has showed that butyrate is produced by the RS feeding flora. But he has yet to show that the richest source of butyrate in the world, butter, would not give the same benefit.

    On a mostly meat centered diet, I feel very well digestively speaking and somewhat "lighter" for lack of a better word in the abdominal area. Maybe it's not carrying around all those billions of bacteria.

  4. #224
    Timthetaco's Avatar
    Timthetaco Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    But he has yet to show that the richest source of butyrate in the world, butter, would not give the same benefit.
    I did. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1066250

    Butyrate from butter does not reach the colon.

  5. #225
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    I did. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1066250

    Butyrate from butter does not reach the colon.
    No, all that says is that SCFAs are absorbed by the colon. The colon is also supplied with blood vessels which could bring the butyrate from the digested butter.

    You had linked a blog post that was speculation city. "One wonders...." is not the same thing as the butyrate doesn't get there.

    The rambling blog postings you linked included this "Cells lining the colon use butyrate as a major substrate for energy production in metabolic pathways that are not fully understood". That does not say that the butyrate couldn't have gotten there though the blood stream either, only that those cells use butyrate.

    Umm. Still waiting for a reason not to just eat the butter and hold the potato.

  6. #226
    Timthetaco's Avatar
    Timthetaco Guest
    The belief that there's another pathway for butyrate to enter the colon for the colonocytes to use for energy (there may be) doesn't need to be disproved by Otzi. I couldn't find any evidence of an alternate pathway, so the burden of proof for that claim is on YOU. At this point it's purely speculative.

  7. #227
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    The belief that there's another pathway for butyrate to enter the colon for the colonocytes to use for energy (there may be) doesn't need to be disproved by Otzi. I couldn't find any evidence of an alternate pathway, so the burden of proof for that claim is on YOU. At this point it's purely speculative.
    You call it a "belief" as if I am believing in Santa Clause. The circulatory system takes nutrients everywhere they are needed in the body after digestion breaks down the foods we eat. So it is not a great stretch of the imagination or something that needs to be proved. Just biology 101.

Page 23 of 23 FirstFirst ... 13212223

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •