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Thread: The Potato Diet....criticisms and metabolic theory page 14

  1. #131
    gopintos's Avatar
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    Yes but yes but yes but.... you said protein deficient diet in that statement so I thought it was safe to lump fasting in there with the rest of the protein deficient diets you were listing, for the sake of protein deficient

    Okay, you guys have your steak tonight but remember don't OD on the protein and get kicked out of ketosis. I had my steak for breakfast (well it was more lunch time than breakfast) but anyways, yes it was delicious so tomorrow I think I will have tators with a side of my own liver cuz my body is too dumb to know it has all this excess fat on my @$$.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklopp View Post
    The corollary to the argument is that if your miraculous weightloss is due largely to protein losses, then you may actually be gaining relative fat mass, i.e. you are losing protein at a faster rate than you are losing fat.
    That's the thing, isn't it? I'm not aware of that happening with any form of weight loss. Fat loss always trumps loss of lean mass. For all your objection, you have yet to show a calorie restriction study that would prove your point that the potato fast would lead to a worrisome loss of lean tissue for such a short period of time. Most diet studies are high carbohydrate by design, so surely there's a calorie restriction study you could find that can definitively prove your point.

    Also, from what I recall, the only reason the potato fast was ever called "magic" was because people were losing weight while eating a lot of starch, which breaks the low carb rule of Eat Carb Insulin Make Fat.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    Yes but yes but yes but.... you said protein deficient diet in that statement so I thought it was safe to lump fasting in there with the rest of the protein deficient diets you were listing, for the sake of protein deficient

    Okay, you guys have your steak tonight but remember don't OD on the protein and get kicked out of ketosis. I had my steak for breakfast and yes it was delicious so tomorrow I think I will have tators with a side of my own liver cuz my body is too dumb to know it has all this excess fat on my @$$.
    If you are in fat burning mode, your body knows this and eats the @$$ fat. If you keep yourself in carb burning mode by pumping in starch all the time, it doesn't. It snacks on your muscles and organs instead.

    The only reason the spud fest works is a combination of a fluffy substance that takes up space in your stomach and yet is low calorie making you feel full enough to chronically under consume on calories.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    yet is low calorie making you feel full enough to chronically under consume on calories.
    Same as I was doing with high fat & low carbs (and yes I realize now that might have been part of my problem - not enough calories but everyone says if you are not hungry, dont eat!) The only difference is that with LC/HF the scale and the inches were not moving. I have had the same measurements since first of July. Scale moved 2lbs from July 1 - October 1.

    Last month, I had 2 days of all tators, and many more days that just included lots of tators with little else, and I lost over 7lbs and 10 inches. And now since October 23, I have lost 7lbs, well another .9 this morning. Maybe a coinky dink of some sort but damn.
    Last edited by gopintos; 11-13-2012 at 06:43 PM.
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  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    if you keep yourself in carb burning mode by pumping in starch all the time, it doesn't. It snacks on your muscles and organs instead.
    I dont know what organs are in my arms, but I lost almost on inch there. Okay yes that must have been the muscle of which you speak and why I all of a sudden feel the need to start ST since I added in starchy carbs. I will have to come up with something better than that I guess.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  6. #136
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    Just a note on low calorie. I find that if I plan my favorite meal (in my case that's supper), and then plan all my calories around that, I don't feel deprived.

    The video that was posted in resources or research about the 5/2 fasting included a 100+ year old man who was the oldest person to have finished a marathon - he had eaten low calorie most of his life. I'm not sure "feeling satiated" is really a very natural state. Did primitive man always feel that? Or did s/he have many days when food wasn't plentiful enough to feel that?

    Maybe satiation is a function of modern life. I don't know for sure. I'm just putting it out there. I've learned to like sort of feeling hungry. Not famished or deprived, just sort of a not quite full feeling.

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleo-bunny View Post
    But the potato diet is not protein deficient. You appear to have missed this point pklopp.
    You may be confusing claims that potatoes are a complete protein, meaning that they are not deficient in any of the essential amino acids, with meaning that potatoes provide adequate levels of protein. While potatoes may very well be a source of complete protein, you have to eat onerous amounts of potatoes in order to eek out any semblance of a reasonable amount of protein.

    According to the USDA, 1.5 kg of raw red potatoes is 1000 kcal with a pittance of 28g of protein for your trouble. Nearly 3.5 lbs. of food to yield 30g of protein? I cannot fathom the dietary contortions I would have to undergo in order to get 60g of protein while somehow stuffing myself with 7 lbs. of potatoes. Let's say I were to go crazy and think that 100g of protein might be appropriate for a 185 lb. reasonably active male to ingest ... that would imply eating 10 lbs. of potatoes, which I would more than likely not do due to sheer physical limitations. The net result of that is that I would be getting woefully inadequate protein.

    -PK
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklopp View Post
    Let's say I were to go crazy and think that 100g of protein might be appropriate for a 185 lb. reasonably active male to ingest ...
    How tall is this 185lb active dude? Like 3' or like 6'? If he is closer to a 6' dude it doesnt sound like this dude needs to worry about tators for weight loss in the first place. Problem solved. Now if he is short and fat, he might be on the verge of a few more obesity related disease worries greater than a little deficient protein for a few days at a time. (2 weeks tops)
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    How tall is this 185lb active dude? Like 3' or like 6'? If he is closer to a 6' dude it doesnt sound like this dude needs to worry about tators for weight loss in the first place. Problem solved. Now if he is short and fat, he might be on the verge of a few more obesity related disease worries greater than a little deficient protein for a few days at a time. (2 weeks tops)
    Isn't that worse, though? His body will eat up his muscles while he continues to sit fat. I'm still "eh" on the starch-without-protein thing.

    On the other side, do Kitavans eat protein with every meal? How come they look so buff?

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    I'm not aware of that happening with any form of weight loss. Fat loss always trumps loss of lean mass.
    I'm sure you will produce the evidence to substantiate that wide sweeping statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    For all your objection, you have yet to show a calorie restriction study that would prove your point that the potato fast would lead to a worrisome loss of lean tissue for such a short period of time. Most diet studies are high carbohydrate by design, so surely there's a calorie restriction study you could find that can definitively prove your point.

    Also, from what I recall, the only reason the potato fast was ever called "magic" was because people were losing weight while eating a lot of starch, which breaks the low carb rule of Eat Carb Insulin Make Fat.
    I'll call your bluff, but first, why don't you produce one, just one, single peer reviewed metabolic ward study showing that strictly eating glucose polymers either results in a massive increase in total daily energy expenditure, or, is grossly inefficient, resulting in most of the nutrients not being assimilated, because that is what the weight loss of the order being anecdotally reported for potato feasts would require. And, incidentally, that's why the potato fast was being called "magic" - due to the magnitude of overnight weight loss figures being reported, not due to the fact that it resulted from eating starch.

    I will even tell you that it is well accepted that carbohydrates are the most efficiently assimilated macro nutrients, and that protein is the nutrient that produces the largest increase in metabolism which is actually the precise opposite of what you need to find. And I do have the studies to substantiate all of these claims, but I will wait to see the evidence I requested above first.

    For my part, here you go:

    Quote Originally Posted by Krieger JW, Sitren HS, Daniels MJ, Langkamp-Henken B: Effects of variation in protein and carbohydrate intake on body mass and composition during energy restriction: A meta-regression. Am J Clin Nutr 2006;83:260-274.
    After control for energy intake, diets consisting of ≤3541.4% energy from carbohydrate were associated with a 1.74 kg greater loss of body mass, a 0.69 kg greater loss of fat-free mass, a 1.29% greater loss in percentage body fat, and a 2.05 kg greater loss of fat mass than were diets with a higher percentage of energy from carbohydrate. In studies that were conducted for >12 wk, these differences increased to 6.56 kg, 1.74 kg, 3.55%, and 5.57 kg, respectively. Protein intakes of >1.05 g/kg were associated with 0.60 kg additional fat-free mass retention compared with diets with protein intakes ≤1.05 g/kg. In studies conducted for >12 wk, this difference increased to 1.21 kg
    Quote Originally Posted by Layman DK. Protein quantity and quality at levels above the RDA improves adult weight loss. J Am Coll Nutr. 2004;23:S6316.
    Evidence is accumulating that diets with reduced carbohydrates and increased levels of high quality protein are effective for weight loss. These diets appear to provide a metabolic advantage during restricted energy intake that targets increased loss of body fat while reducing loss of lean tissue and stabilizing regulations of blood glucose...Initial findings support use of dietary [protein] at levels above 1.5 g/kg d during weight loss.
    And one more for good measure:

    Quote Originally Posted by Acute Energy Deprivation Affects Skeletal Muscle Protein Synthesis and Associated Intracellular Signaling Proteins in Physically Active Adults
    ...these studies, along with the present investigation, show that nitrogen retention is better maintained in response to energy deficits with protein intakes approximately twice the RDA...
    Which is to say that someone like me, should be getting 1.6 g -1 d-1 of protein in order to maintain nitrogen balance ( i.e. proteinaceous tissues ) during caloric restriction. Since I weigh 84 kg. that means I would need on the order of 135g of protein, or about 7.1 kg worth of potatoes to make that protein number. Of course, at that point I would not be in an energy deficit since that would be almost 5000 cal. of potatoes. The conclusion is that it is impossible to eat at an energy deficit level with potatoes only and remain in nitrogen balance.

    -PK
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

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