Primal Potato Diet (PPD) page 7

[otzi]

!= does not mean equals....

I give up trying to reason this water weight loss with you guys because you are NOT PURELY BURNING FAT when you have glycogen stores from potatoes and you won't help to explain why you happen to lose purely fat, when you are clearly at caloric deficits and using up your current stores of glycogen...

Without fat, bulk calories are stored as glycogen, excepting that there is a little de novo fat synthesis from glucose in the liver. Hepatic glycogen does not cause hepatic insulin resistance. In the near absence of FFA supply the liver maintains insulin sensitivity and the ability to degrade insulin. Nothing like as much insulin reaches the periphery as is produced by the pancreas in response to 2-3000kcal of potatoes.

The second effect of shutting down free fatty acid supply from adipocytes and diet is the loss of fatty acid intermediates in muscle. Insulin sensitivity increases, the amount of insulin needed to facilitate glucose uptake by muscles decreases. Insulin secretion from the pancreas will then decrease but hepatic extraction of insulin continues while ever carbohydrate adaption continues.

The ultimate determinant of weight loss is fasting insulin. This determines how much lipolysis occurs during the period before the next meal. No one expects to lose weight during the 4 hours immediately after any meal. The following 8 hours, especially overnight, is when weight loss occurs. (Peter from Hyperlipid)

[sakura_girl]

I know, I am trying to reason with people that the 10 lbs that they lost in a week is a lot of water weight. They say no, that it cannot be water weight because they eat glucose that gets converted to glycogen. But if you are at a caloric deficit, you're going to lose glycogen from your body, no matter what you are eating.

But thank you for that awesome explanation

[otzi]

I know, I am trying to reason with people that the 10 lbs that they lost in a week is a lot of water weight. They say no, that it cannot be water weight because they eat glucose that gets converted to glycogen. But if you are at a caloric deficit, you're going to lose glycogen from your body, no matter what you are eating.

But thank you for that awesome explanation

In my case, I lost 10lbs of 'weight' in 2 weeks. I estimate this represented 6-7 lbs fat, 2-3lbs water, 1 or less of lean muscle mass. Basing it on waist measurement and rebound weight after eating normally again. I am estimating high on the water, as I lost another 2 pounds in the days after returning to normal primal, but in the weeks since, I have regained 3 pounds since lowest weight seen after embarking on this hack.

[sakura_girl]

Do you do any heavy lifting? I want to know if your gains have been lost by this kind of diet.

[Zach]

Hello all. I joined this forum to talk about the Potato diet. Specifically the use of adding a significant amount of coconut oil to AID in the amount of fat loss. I know the original calls for no fat because of the mechanisms to produce insulin need a fat source and body fat is the source on this diet BUT as has been discussed, MCT is metabolized differently in the body and is treated more like a carbohydrate. Coconut oil also has been showed to raise metabolism so if on a caloric deficit where all MCT is being burned along with the starch, would that not equal a higher rate of fat loss without messing with the mechanisms at play?

I am still not exactly clear on if this would help or hinder and all potato diet but i find it a very interesting idea, not only because it would add a much needed variety to this diet but also that it could potentially be a better version! Here are a few things pulled from different sources.

" Medium chain triglycerides are digested and utilized differently than other fatty acids. Instead of being packaged into lipoproteins that circulate in the bloodstream, they are absorbed directly into the bloodstream through the portal vein, and are then transported to the liver. Because they don’t need bile or pancreatic enzymes to break down, they are easier to digest. And because they are easier to digest, they provide your body with quick energy, like carbohydrates.

Since MCTs are utilized quickly as energy, they are not stored as fat—unless of course you over consume calories. Numerous studies have shown that ingesting MCTs contributes to weight loss and a reduction in fat."

"The ability of some of the medium chain saturated fatty acids to inhibit the liver's formation of fat very likely synergizes with the pro-thyroid effect, in allowing energy to be used, rather than stored. When fat isn't formed from carbohydrate, the sugar is available for use, or for storage as glycogen. Therefore, shifting from unsaturated fats in foods to coconut oil involves several anti-stress processes, reducing our need for the adrenal hormones. Decreased blood sugar is a basic signal for the release of adrenal hormones. Unsaturated oil tends to lower the blood sugar in at least three basic ways. It damages mitochondria, causing respiration to be uncoupled from energy production, meaning that fuel is burned without useful effect. It suppresses the activity of the respiratory enzyme (directly, 'and through its anti-thyroid actions), decreasing the respiratory production of energy. And it tends to direct carbohydrate into fat production, making both stress and obesity more probable. For those of us who use coconut oil consistently, one of the most noticeable changes is the ability to go for several hours without eating, and to feel hungry without having symptoms of hypoglycemia."

Coconut Oil

"Medium chain fatty acids (MCFA) are readily oxidized in the liver. Animal and human studies have shown that the fast rate of oxidation of MCFA leads to greater energy expenditure (EE). Most animal studies have also demonstrated that the greater EE with MCFA relative to long-chain fatty acids (LCFA) results in less body weight gain and decreased size of fat depots after several months of consumption. Furthermore, both animal and human trials suggest a greater satiating effect of medium-chain triglycerides (MCT) compared with long-chain triglycerides (LCT). "

Physiological Effects of Medium-Chain Triglycerides: Potential Agents in the Prevention of Obesity

[Kilian]

The coconut oil thing is an interesting idea. It makes sense. Also, look at the much discussed Kitavan diet: Potatoes, moderate coconut, and fish when available. That probably has nothing to do with our little potato hack, but worth mentioning.

Also, Sakura, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. Especially with the overwhelming amount of empirical evidence.

[JoanieL]

As a person who believes in numbers probably more than anything else, I don't even "believe" a person can lose five pounds in a week, even if they eat nothing but water. However, when I was heavier, I had a few five pound loss weeks and certainly more than a few three pound loss weeks. Therefore, I was forced, even before Atkins, PB, and of course PPD to believe that something else is going on besides CICO. I don't understand it in depth, but I don't really need to do so.

I also like the fact that someone is trying a one-food hack with eggs. As long as no one is doing a Twinkie hack and even remotely suggesting it fits into the PB, I find it all pretty interesting. I'm guessing that anyone who doesn't believe could try it for three days and see the results for themselves. At 2.5-3 pounds per day of potatoes, the odds are you wouldn't gain weight.

[sakura_girl]

The coconut oil thing is an interesting idea. It makes sense. Also, look at the much discussed Kitavan diet: Potatoes, moderate coconut, and fish when available. That probably has nothing to do with our little potato hack, but worth mentioning.

Also, Sakura, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't work. Especially with the overwhelming amount of empirical evidence.

There is no overwhelming amount of empirical evidence that the majority of the weight lost is fat. The only empirical evidence is that there's a lot of weight to be lost.

[tatertot]

Do you do any heavy lifting? I want to know if your gains have been lost by this kind of diet.

I do not do any heavy lifting in the 'go to the gym and lift weights' sense. I have a big tractor tire I flip around my yard and I do lots of pullups and sandbag squats. I did not lose the ability to do anything I have been doing after 2 weeks of eating potatoes. I've been back to a normal low-carb paleo diet for 4 weeks now and things have remained very well. As of this morning, I am 12 pounds lighter than the day I started the potato diet on 1 October.

During the 2 weeks, I did not exercise at all the first week, and about half-paced the second week.

If I were a bodybuilder or an underwear model, I may give this diet a pass, but for the average guy (or gal) I think it is fine.

[tatertot]

Hello all. I joined this forum to talk about the Potato diet. Specifically the use of adding a significant amount of coconut oil to AID in the amount of fat loss. I know the original calls for no fat because of the mechanisms to produce insulin need a fat source and body fat is the source on this diet BUT as has been discussed, MCT is metabolized differently in the body and is treated more like a carbohydrate. Coconut oil also has been showed to raise metabolism so if on a caloric deficit where all MCT is being burned along with the starch, would that not equal a higher rate of fat loss without messing with the mechanisms at play?

Hey, Zach - Welcome to the fray! Here's the real problem with the "Potato Diet"...as soon as you do it once, you are an instant expert. It only takes 2 weeks or less to go from a non-believer to a guru. Richard at freetheanimal is living proof.

I think your CO experiment would be easy to do and likely work very well. If it does work, put a little science behind it and do a big write-up here, you'll be an instant celebrity!