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Thread: The Presidential election, Union vs Confederacy? page 3

  1. #21
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    Primal Fuel
    I don't know about y'all, but I voted for Neil Degrass Tyson and Bill Nye for President!

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    Well, we already have bases in every state.

    I think it will be interesting watching the EU break apart (which I think is inevitable at this point.) I enjoy reading articles about Catalonia seceding from Spain for example. The Greeks are now voting on exiting the EU, it may not pass this time, but one day it will, I'm sure.

    A complete collapse of paper currency could wreak all kinds of havoc on the current power structures around the world. I'm sure there is a different future outcome for every different imagination on the planet.
    People are intellectually lazy when it comes to elections. They vote for their candidate as if they are supporting their favorite sports team. Except with the sports team many will actually study the stats and question the coaches decisions.

    There are a lot of young adults (college age) posting to MDA who don't have a clue as to the bigger picture they face in their future. A lot of them argue for "sustainability" yet they'll vote for bigger government programs which requires an ever expanding economy to support it. To understand sustainability they first need to have a grasp of complexity and what it takes to maintain that complexity. Increasing complexity pushes a culture to collapse and unsustainablility. Obamacare is the most complexity thing pushed in the last four years. As a spoof, the Republicans put up this schematic of what they thought the system would look like http://wizbangblog.com/images/2009/0...care_chart.jpg but this is actually how Obamacare's schematic looks out http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpre...complexity.jpg

    Everything in the nature/environment is an energy system. The economy is an energy system. In order to have an economy capable of supporting a complex culture, that economy requires positive Net Energy (or Energy Return On Energy Invested). Professor Joseph Tainter is a renown expert on why culture's collapse. He calls this relationship between energy and complexity "The Energy Spiral." The less net energy a society has the less complexity it will support. Yet we have young adults who want to hamper the very energy sources (coal, oil, natural gas) which support the world they living in. In their minds, it's as if society could simply switch to an alternative and society would simply rock on, and be cleaner.

    Chris Matenson has this power point presentation on energy and complexity


    Mary Logan of the University of Alaska, whose father was a major figure in the 1970's environmental movement, also talks about the life altering energy and complexity issues these young adults are facing in this lecture Dr. Mary Logan - Whither Complexity?

    And I'll through in this lecture by Joseph Tainter "The Collapse of Complex Societies" and what it means for today's world.
    Collapse of Complex Societies by Dr. Joseph Tainter (1 of 7) - YouTube

    Admittedly, those three sources will take some time to watch and learn how all three are talking about the same problem these college people are facing. Yet I'll wager not one of them will bother to watch and learn any of it...especially if they draw an opinion that I some conservative hack.

    But the bottom line is this: their world is in collapse and they can't see happening. The dollar is going to collapse because we have a Keynesian economic philosophy which ignores this relationship of net energy to complexity but which tries to maintain all these grand social programs through borrowing and printing money. It took the Roman Empire 300 years to collapse. We could do it inside of 30 years if the net energy it requires falls of the energy cliff. Tainter shows a striking comparison of the Roman Empire's collapse, and what preceded it, to our own economy. They also instituted grand social programs and they also devalued their currency to support their government programs.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moochy View Post
    This is not precise but does it look to you as if we are fighting the civil war? Lol.
    What is this "civil war" you speak of? Oh, you must mean the War of Northern Agression, as we call it in the South. And yes, we are still pissed about it.
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  4. #24
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    Have you guys seen all these petitions to peacefully secede from the US?

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions

    Pretty much all 50 states are listed now, or close to it. Several have reached the 25,000 signatures required to get a response from Obama.

    I'm pretty sure the Obama response will be the middle finger.

  5. #25
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    Oh, sorry..... did Chris Mathews highjack a thread here? Moron for sure, MDA subscriber...? Doubtful, too chubby in the face. Ah, the old election by States map? Search for the election breakdown by counties, it's a lot more telling. The vast majority of the landmass, coded in red and inhabited by people of all kinds of colors and accents who dissagree with Obama's policy objectives (as they each may define them), were out voted by a handful of major population centers on the coasts, in capital cities closest to the seat of governments, and around the west bend of the Great Lakes. This had nothing to do with North vs South or white vs black. 40% of white voters voted for the President. 68% of hispanics and better than 93% of blacks did the same thing. Stop trying to boil everything down to racism because a half black guy (who just got reelected) is in the White House.

    I commend the States who leagalized marijuana and same sex marriage, as is their right to do so, and all the others who nullified federal laws for which the general government has no legitimate authority. I only wish that their State legislatures had a set of balls to back it up. Believe me, as soon as D.C. notifies them that they're going to lose their federal (extortion) money... the game is up. In the meantime, expect Obama's DEA to continue raids into medical marijuana facilities in California and other states, while upping enforcement measures in CO and WA.
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  6. #26
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    Have you guys seen all these petitions to peacefully secede from the US?

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions

    Pretty much all 50 states are listed now, or close to it. Several have reached the 25,000 signatures required to get a response from Obama.

    I'm pretty sure the Obama response will be the middle finger.
    Devolution and Decentralization are the only real hope for the future. In terms of getting an actual response from the Tyrant in Chief, you are right not to expect one, but I think the purpose of this is more to awaken minds and change attitudes. The MSM has spent a lot of time and energy establishing the idea that secession is "crazy". We need to counter that propaganda. And there is a delicious irony in using the White House's own website to do it.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    However, you can be pretty sure that the US dollar will collapse, and the Union will most likely break up as a result of that.
    That's as credible as everything else you say.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    That's as credible as everything else you say.
    Can you give me an example of a paper currency which hasn't collapsed?

  10. #30
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    So when the civil war comes which side do you all fall on [secessionist or statist for lack of a better description]? And do you think your cause [secede or prevent seceding] is worth fighting for?

    Also, Greece voting themselves out of the EU is like a parasite removing itself from a dying organism.
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