A question for the Grokettes. page 2

[Louisa655]

Hello girls.
I was wondering what you look for in a man? How do you like a man to approach you? What would be your top tips for single men looking to meet a girl?
I ask this as ive been reading alot of dating "advice" latly and its pretty much all written by men so just wanted to get a females point of view. I thought to myself, what better place to ask than the MDA forum which is full of open minded, helpful women.
Cheers, Kieran

Hi, Kieran: It's such a loaded question and there are so many variations of grey, aren't there? I don't know how old you are but you may want to consider using the term, 'ladies' as opposed to 'girls'. We are not girls, we are mature ladies and we are generally looking to be considered as an equal or important person.

It's my experience that meeting a 'nice guy' is challenging as there aren't enough of them around ....hoping you are one of those nice 'guys' or gentlemen. The fact that you are posting this and asking for advice gives me a good vibe about you.

It's not easy for men to 'get out there' and put their best foot forward and risk what is 'perceived' rejection. Always remember that 'rejection' is never really about you -- it's more about what's going on in a young lady's life that you may be unaware of (recent breakup; lesbian; recently moved; still in school and not ready for a relationship etc etc). All you can do is dress nicely (get some advice on how to dress to impress a nice lady): Get a nice haircut, be clean shaven, freshly showered, wear nice shoes and just be yourself. Put aside your fears of rejection and approach some young ladies and engage in a friendly, light conversation. Try not to focus on 'getting a date', but think about meeting some interesting ladies who may become great friends in your life. If there is one particular lady who just stands out, get to know her by asking her questions. This demonstrates your interest in her and your ability to actively listen. Generally, young ladies want to know that you are interested in them as people -- over and above their bodies (wink wink, if you know what I mean).

And lastly, remember that some girls have not been raised with as many manners as you would like, and do not take their 'rudeness' as a personal affront. Just know that there are numerous fish in the pond, and you have to keep searching, digging, sorting and putting yourself out there, until you meet that one special lady. And also remember, that you are a unique, caring individual who is worthy of a great relationship and never settle for anyone that treats you as anything less. Get out there and embrace the ladies of this world --- because most of us are looking to meet our prince (except me -- I found mine after 18 years of being single ;-) Cheers, mate: Good luck on your adventure! /Lu

[alg2435]

Dedicated, considerate, respectful, humorous. Looks are the least important, but being healthy and in shape don't hurt. I also second Damiana's advice to spend time in public places, where there will always be an occasion to happen across someone without having to be 'creepy' about it.

[Blackcatbone]

What are you looking for in a woman? Beyond whatever physical attributes you're interested, what kind of personality? What kind of sense of humor, how friendly, intelligence level, interests, etc.? I would think that tailoring your approach to the type of woman you're looking for would be a good start. Most women like to be amused, but that what that means to specific women varies. I'm not at all interested in most mainstream pop-culture so if you referenced a reality show I'd look at you like you were from Mars. Something out of left field, OTOH, would be a good approach. There's a good chance you won't know what a women is interested in just by looking at her, but it's a quick way of finding out if she's got potential.

As for what I look for, a lot of the things others have mentioned, but also a man that has his own life, his own interests. The ability to entertain himself, is comfortable doing his own thing and with me doing mine. Jealousy or dependency is a big turn-off.

[Kieran]

Hi, Kieran: It's such a loaded question and there are so many variations of grey, aren't there? I don't know how old you are but you may want to consider using the term, 'ladies' as opposed to 'girls'. We are not girls, we are mature ladies and we are generally looking to be considered as an equal or important person.

It's my experience that meeting a 'nice guy' is challenging as there aren't enough of them around ....hoping you are one of those nice 'guys' or gentlemen. The fact that you are posting this and asking for advice gives me a good vibe about you.

It's not easy for men to 'get out there' and put their best foot forward and risk what is 'perceived' rejection. Always remember that 'rejection' is never really about you -- it's more about what's going on in a young lady's life that you may be unaware of (recent breakup; lesbian; recently moved; still in school and not ready for a relationship etc etc). All you can do is dress nicely (get some advice on how to dress to impress a nice lady): Get a nice haircut, be clean shaven, freshly showered, wear nice shoes and just be yourself. Put aside your fears of rejection and approach some young ladies and engage in a friendly, light conversation. Try not to focus on 'getting a date', but think about meeting some interesting ladies who may become great friends in your life. If there is one particular lady who just stands out, get to know her by asking her questions. This demonstrates your interest in her and your ability to actively listen. Generally, young ladies want to know that you are interested in them as people -- over and above their bodies (wink wink, if you know what I mean).

And lastly, remember that some girls have not been raised with as many manners as you would like, and do not take their 'rudeness' as a personal affront. Just know that there are numerous fish in the pond, and you have to keep searching, digging, sorting and putting yourself out there, until you meet that one special lady. And also remember, that you are a unique, caring individual who is worthy of a great relationship and never settle for anyone that treats you as anything less. Get out there and embrace the ladies of this world --- because most of us are looking to meet our prince (except me -- I found mine after 18 years of being single ;-) Cheers, mate: Good luck on your adventure! /Lu

Dedicated, considerate, respectful, humorous. Looks are the least important, but being healthy and in shape don't hurt. I also second Damiana's advice to spend time in public places, where there will always be an occasion to happen across someone without having to be 'creepy' about it.

Keiran, firstly good luck on your quest. I haven't been in the dating game for 29 years, and then I wasn't really "in" the dating game! My husband picked me up hitch-hiking !!!! however I do not suggest that this is how you go about it !!!!!!
Beauty comes from within, whether you are a male or female.
Honesty is your best medicine, however don't tell her about the boils on your bum - let her find them herself !!!! Don't tell her that you are a proctocologist - wait for her to tell you about her piles ! For heavens sake do not....and I repeat.... DO NOT tell her about your ex-partner, who ran off with dadedas daughters, husbands ex marine buddy, after having a b'n'd sess with a chick from out of town. These things don't go down well with the first impression image
Don't name drop and flex your muscles, cos (in this old Gwammas opinion), it becomes quite cheesy. However if after a few dates in - you would like her to know that - the Queen of England is you cousin - slip it in !!!!!
Smile, look her in the eye, and see where it takes you....good luck, and failing all of that - come over to NZ. We have some lovely genuine chicks over here. Well worth a visit !!!!
G

Thank you for these brilliant replies. I feel that men are barraged with all this advice that meeting women is some magic formula and you have to be the "bad boy" to get the ladies and then theres the men like me who are just looking to meet a nice women who like them for just being them instead of having to act like a dick/cool/fake so the women likes them etc etc.

[Kochin]

Here's what women (including myself) TYPICALLY drool over which ISN'T looks:

Grooming:
A man who is obviously clean and who seems to care about what he looks like (acne under control, beard shaven or neat, hair combed...). It's OK to have a "messy" hairSTYLE or some stubble, but we women usually know when it's an intentional "bad boy" look and when it's laziness. ;p
Wear whatever you're comfortable in and groom however you like to look, but DO keep an eye on what you look like. A man who looks a mess will appear to disprespect himself. Which leads on to...

Posture:
We don't only like a man to dress like he loves and respects himself, it's nice if he can carry himself that way too! Keep your head up, make eye contact when talking, smile somtimes, keep serious when required... Basically: act like you're confident and take pride in yourself! You're a Grok, so you should have PLENTY to be proud of. Don't be an arse about it, just show that you like who you are and that you have reason to. Also, adopting a confident posture can inspire confidence and mental strength in EVERYONE. Shoulders back, back straight, head up = you feel good and strong. If you feel the part, you'll look the part and the cycle repeats until you have women swooning over your Alpha-ness.

Personality: Be yourself. That's just it. If you pretend to be X, you'll get a girl who likes X, not a girl who likes YOU. Be yourself and you'll meet Mrs Right. Just remember to listen too, to make sure she's right for you!

This isn't very precise, I know, but this is just a general look at what a TYPICAL female finds attractive beyond looks. Some may prefer the quieter male, for example, but USUALLY women go for the Alpha, the Beta or the Rogue: the strong, confident men of society. Just be yourself, love yourself and be nice to ladies and you'll find someone who's right for you.

[magnolia1973]

Mr Anthony..... he has the right idea. Be confident, but not an ass. Funny never hurts.

[zoebird]

If you have a trusted, candid female friend, she'll be able to help you out a lot.

I was often a "scout" for my female friends and the wingman for my male friends, once we talked about what people wanted and needed.

My process was generally simple. Foremost, for myself, I didn't care if I get dates and never have -- which by the way, keeps you pretty much flooded with dates until you decide to pick one and marry (or whatever). This means that I was free to help other people get what they want.

What most people -- men and women -- want someone who is compatible with them. So, you need to first spend some time thinking about the kind of person with whom you want to be. Think about it in terms of lifestyle in every way that you can think of -- working hours, how s/he spends spare time, diet, hobbies and interests, and look for common values around money, spirituality, and politics. You might also want to think about whether or not you want children (and how you want them -- adoption, IVF, whatever. . . it's worth thinking about ahead of time, particularly if you want to remain child-free).

From there, you might have certain tastes that you prefer -- don't be too picky (only red heads named Amy) -- but also just be aware of what your particular tastes are and be willing to deviate from those tastes too -- someone might surprise you.

This is your personal, up-front work to know what you're looking for.

Once you have a sense of this, and you just need to develop confidence in some basic skills. The first basic skill is chatting someone up. There are good and not-as-good and also really terrible ways to do this. The easiest entry is to simply be friendly. Smiling, perhaps a bit flirty, but not too off color. A compliment is a good, safe place to start flirting, btw.

So, you have to learn this first bit which is mostly about asking evaluative questions. You're looking to determine if she's interested (in you) and interesting (enough to go out with). By knowing what you like, what you're looking for, you can determine this pretty quickly within the banter -- even if the banter is basically nothing at all beyond a general description of the sky being blue.

You'll need to practice banter with the friend who is candid with you. She'll be able to clearly evaluate everything from dress to body language (does your dress indicate about yourself the things that you think it does? What about your body language?). She'll be able to tell you whether or not your banter works, and . . . if she's smart, she'll be able to switch up the answers to give you a way to sharpen up and handle different kinds of reactions. . . without your banter being "script-y."

Once you have yourself sorted and practiced, then you can start choosing venues. Bars and clubs aren't for everyone (me, in particular), and if you don't drink, it's a horrible place to meet someone. LOL But, there are lots of other social things that exist out there that can provide opportunities to meet people *if* you know how to go.

With a female wingman, particularly in typically non-meet-people places like parks or Tough Mudder course, she'll be able to pinpoint and talk to specific women in the group who may be open. She can then introduce you, and slyly bring forth that you are not together, but good friends. This will give an "in" to other females in the group who may be interested in you, and you can chat them up.

Your female wingman can also redirect you into things. For example, if you are obviously causing discomfort to *her* group of friends (in particular her scout, and secondarily, her cock-blocker friend), she can change the topic and redirect you into new areas of banter that will decrease the impact of these two (bringing them onto your side). I have played both roles, by the way (both scout and cock-blocker), and the later role is usually just a horrible one to play. It's one where she says "don't let me make mistakes" but of course, she WANTS to make mistakes, so you end up the glowering bad guy. It sucks, but in a group of 5, you're likely to have 4-5 singles, one of whom is a scout and the other of whom is going to be the most protective of the group (hence, the cock-blocker).

In non-bar social situations, a group of girls out and about might actually be looking for guys. Being with a group of guys can help, but being a loner with a girl wingman is an easier in to have the opportunity to attempt to work 4 girls. Two guys (a second wingman plus your girl wingman) is an even better option, assuming both guys are single. Girls will assume that one of the two guys is dating the girl, and the other is looking.

The scout is the first girl who will approach you (particularly if you're in an all-male group or alone), and she's usually burdened with this job and not interested herself. She mostly has been pushed into the roll by her "more shy" single friends who want to meet guys but don't want to be awkward around them by approaching them.

Enter me, who didn't care either way because I wasn't looking for dates.

Anyway, end of the day, your female wingman can get you into a social group providing you access to 4-5 single females, and it's good to have some buddies on your speed dial so that you can call them over if you make a big hit. "Do you have any friends" will be what the other girls will ask, and you'd better have some available to come within about 2 hrs, or make another date with the group of them at a later time with these friends.

At this point, female wingman has done her job. Once you have number(s), she can go "right, I have to work in the morning, I'm heading home." And she's out. You're left with the girls, and if you had guys on dial, they'll come too.

If you can get through the banter, you'll be good.

She'll start looking into what she's looking for when you are dating. When you should be too. So know what you are looking for ahead of time, and you'll do ok.

[Damiana]

Mr Anthony..... he has the right idea. Be confident, but not an ass. Funny never hurts.

Yep. Confidence is soooooo important. There is a line between confident and arrogant asshole, though. Try not to cross it.

[olehcat]

From the perspective of a newly divorced woman who has not been in the dating game for decades, I know for me, I'm perfectly fine with being single for now unless a guy really 'wow's me. By 'wow', I do NOT mean muscle-flexxing or telling me about huge bank accounts, haha, but I just mean by showing good manners, having a sense of humor, open-minded, well groomed, respectful and courteous and compassionate (no laughing when an old person falls or something, ), and a sense of adventure. To me, everything else is secondary. I mean, I do think there has to be some physical chemistry, but the other stuff really contributes to that, too.

[magnolia1973]

There is a line between confident and arrogant asshole, though.

Yeah, I think that line is humor.

Also.... ummm..... well, shop your market. I have a lot of girlfriends who are always single with impossibly high standards. That sweet, funny, wealthy, smart sexy guy probably isn't going to go for the frumpy cat lady. I know some great guys that have a "flaw" or two (basically not college educated). They are funny, sweet, attractive, FUN and stable, yet my girlfriends REFUSE to date them because they "lack a degree". It's stupid. They are alone at 40 because the guys they go after date women in their 20's because they have the money to. And well, I watch my guy friends date hot 20 year olds with slamming bodies then bitch about them 1. wanting kids, 2. complaining about money not being spent or 3. being immature.

There are some great men and women who aren't 10's