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  1. #21
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcarianVX View Post
    If you want to gain then stop with all of the cardio. Sprint once a week.
    You can gain plenty of mass without eating craploads of carbohydrates. Up your fat and protein intake, cut your carb intake in half and eat 75% of those carbs within 90 minutes of training.
    This is the truthiness.

  2. #22
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    Eat breakfast, eat eat eat, if you trying to
    Gain just eat its so simple.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcarianVX View Post
    If you want to gain then stop with all of the cardio. Sprint once a week.
    You can gain plenty of mass without eating craploads of carbohydrates. Up your fat and protein intake, cut your carb intake in half and eat 75% of those carbs within 90 minutes of training.
    Truth.

    Also, the simple act of being in the pool for 30 minutes a day is going to suck significant amounts of heat out of your body, which means your body needs to increase the amount of calories used for maintaining body temperature. Good for losing weight, not good for gaining. No more swimming.

  4. #24
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    the difficult part is how to increase the calories ?
    i need like 3200 cal a day

  5. #25
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    eat more? beef, lamb, pork, venison, bison, turkey, etc. eggs by the dozen. whole milk. 21 years old. 136lbs. you're the poster child for a year of starting strength and GOMAD. read some mark rippetoe.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damiana View Post
    That's a lot of carbs and too little proteins and fats if you're trying to gain IMO.
    I don't think so at all. Too little protein, yes, but I'd add even more carbs if he's trying to gain. Carbs are phenomenal for putting on lots of lean mass post-workout. I've never had success eating fat in a caloric surplus. I just get fat and gave up a higher fat approach a long time ago due to lousy body composition and slow muscle growth. Packing in protein and carbs, though, I put on almost entirely muscle and can severely overeat after a workout until I feel like I'm going to puke with little to no fat gain. If anything, I'd double protein, cut fats to maybe 60-70 grams a day and add another 100g of carbohydrate.

    Example: Monday night after deadlifts, I ate a pound of eye round, 2 white potatoes, 1 sweet potato, 2 huge plantains and a bowl of canned pumpkin mixed with fat free Greek yogurt and semisweet chocolate chips/chocolate syrup.

    Wednesday: My dinner was ice cream covered in that chocolate magic shell that gets hard when it gets cold, and 2 beers. That's it. I did no physical activity at all on Wednesday outside of a 2 mile walk before ice cream. I was hungry before bed, so I ate a tub of 1% cottage cheese with pumpkin puree and cinnamon.

    Yesterday: Benchpress followed by 1 lb of eye round, 1 plantain, 2 white potatoes and a sweet potato.

    Dead 1RM went up 5 lbs, I added an extra rep to my bench and I lost 2 lbs. I've been off the high fat bandwagon for a long time because of this. Carbs, please.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 10-19-2012 at 10:08 AM.
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  7. #27
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    I think, as long as you're lifting heavy, giving yourself enough recovery/sleep, and eating enough of a surplus for your body type, you're really going to have to experiment with the carb/fat ratio. Protein should always be fairly high as that is the building blocks of muscles. I've had so much more success building muscle with an almost isocaloric approach...200-250 grams of fats, carbs, and protein a day. Yes, thats 4000 calories but for me thats what I need. I'm gaining almost a pound a week and still am more than happy with my level of definition (I'd estimate fat to be below 10%). Then on rest days I cut carbs back to Mark's "maintenance level" of 100-150.

    Now, based off most suggestions, 250 grams of carbs PLUS 250 grams of fat would equal major fat gain, but heck, it's what works for me. Not to mention it's so much more enjoyable eating fatty cuts of beef or cooking veggies in butter and than just rounding out the meal with a sweet potato than my old high carb approach of poultry, potatoes, rice, and quinoa.

    I'm certainly not trying to negate anyones opinion/experience/science-based theories...just saying you gotta experiment to find what works for you for today and tomorrow.
    Oh, and a quart of raw, local, grass-fed goats milk immediately after weight training works wonders! (kind of expensive though)
    Last edited by PaulRomasco; 10-19-2012 at 10:25 AM.

  8. #28
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    ChocoTaco, your posts about carbs make me want to try a different approach to my diet.
    I'm not working out now because I can't due to my current health state (hypopituitarism, with several hormonal deficiencies and imbalances) but, with the Paleo WOE and my TRT (which puts me at around 1100 ng/dl Total Testosterone) make me put on muscles without physical activity quite easily which is great.

    However I still have problems with energy levels, and my glycogen stores tend to fluctuate quite a bit, my overall firmness too (Probably due to elevated estradiol levels which I started to control yesterday), so I want to try a more "Carbs of energy" approach for something like a week, just for the sake of experiment, and see if it changes anything in terms of energy, muscles changes, BF changes or so. I don't eat VLC by any means, I tried it, felt ok, but didn't like the way it made me look like, flat, depleted and blurry. Also, it made my acid reflux came back because of the lack of veggies to counteract the acid effects of that much fats and proteins.
    I eat around 90 to 100 g of carbs a day from veggies, but I eat 50% to 60% of my calories as fats. I just want to try it, I don't know if it'll change anything, it could all well be due to my yet to be addressed hormonal problems (I just started to take Thyroid meds and Arimidex to control estradiol levels and T3 so it could change in a very important manner my quality of life more than my diet.)

    Do you think I could get any benefits from it ?
    Young self-caring Paleo-eater from France.
    (So please forgive the strange way I tend to express myself in your beautiful language )

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
    ChocoTaco, your posts about carbs make me want to try a different approach to my diet.
    I'm not working out now because I can't due to my current health state (hypopituitarism, with several hormonal deficiencies and imbalances) but, with the Paleo WOE and my TRT (which puts me at around 1100 ng/dl Total Testosterone) make me put on muscles without physical activity quite easily which is great.
    IMO, the huge problem with Mark's Primal Blueprint is his emphasis on fats and and his overall shunning of carbs. What matters is whole foods - a potato is just as healthy as an avocado. In fact, I am with Stephan Guyenet on this one - human life came from Equatorial regions, not the Arctic. The overwhelming majority of us are descendents of warm climates, which are noted for leaner game animals with plentiful starches and tubers. Look at current traditional societies that have not been Westernized - their staples are almost always carbohydrate based. It is NOT typical to find high fat traditional societies, but high carb is very, very common. This is a very interesting read.

    Whole Health Source: Clarifications About Carbohydrate and Insulin

    Humans are adapted to eating starch. Hunter-gatherers show genetic evidence for selection for starch tolerance relative to other primates, and agricultural populations show even more (1). The vast majority of people who are reading this descend from agricultural populations that ate high-starch diets for thousands of years...Since the ancestors of most people reading this have probably been eating more starch than fat for a very long time, at a minimum thousands of years, but probably closer to a million (because African game meat tends to be pretty lean, and most peoples' ancestors never passed through far Northern latitudes where fat calories predominate), I think the "null hypothesis" should be that humans are best adapted to diets where starch predominates over fat. In other words, that should be the default hypothesis that requires evidence to disprove. The fact that there are so many healthy high-starch cultures, far more than there are high-fat cultures, adds to the weight of the evidence.
    Think about it. Now, this doesn't make fat unhealthy - far from it - but I see the ideal human diet for most of us being plentiful in carbohydrate.

    The big problem is that carbohydrate gets demonized because people with metabolic syndrome can't process carbohydrate anymore. It was never caused by carbohydrate. Metabolic syndrome is caused by chronic inflammation, not spiking your insulin. And how do you get chronically inflamed? Eating a diet rich in grains, processed vegetable oils, processed sugars, thickeners, chemical sweeteners, preservatives, etc. It has nothing to do with carbohydrate. It's like blaming your pencil for spelling words wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
    However I still have problems with energy levels, and my glycogen stores tend to fluctuate quite a bit, my overall firmness too (Probably due to elevated estradiol levels which I started to control yesterday), so I want to try a more "Carbs of energy" approach for something like a week, just for the sake of experiment, and see if it changes anything in terms of energy, muscles changes, BF changes or so. I don't eat VLC by any means, I tried it, felt ok, but didn't like the way it made me look like, flat, depleted and blurry. Also, it made my acid reflux came back because of the lack of veggies to counteract the acid effects of that much fats and proteins.
    I eat around 90 to 100 g of carbs a day from veggies, but I eat 50% to 60% of my calories as fats. I just want to try it, I don't know if it'll change anything, it could all well be due to my yet to be addressed hormonal problems (I just started to take Thyroid meds and Arimidex to control estradiol levels and T3 so it could change in a very important manner my quality of life more than my diet.)

    Do you think I could get any benefits from it ?
    Change things up. Drop your fats to the 50g range or so and start eating 300-400g of carbohydrate every day. Just make it from fruits, vegetables, tubers and the like, not from grains and refined sugars (though you can have some raw honey, organic maple syrup and blackstrap molasses in moderation). Focus on nutrient density. I feel far better eating leaner meats and carbohydrate than I do dropping carbs and eating fats. Fats are too calorically dense for me. I always overeat them before I feel full, and I get chubby fast eating them. Lean meats and starches, however, they fill me up fast and since carbs and protein isn't directly stored as fat, I maintain a much better body composition. I'm Italian - a Mediterranean climate by descent. Clearly, I am made for a more moderate approach and not a descendent of Nordics eating blubber.

    For what it's worth, I probably eat around 25-30% of my calories from fat, 30-35% calories from protein and 35-40% calories from carbohydrate. My workout days are probably 50-60% carbohydrate with <20% fat.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 10-19-2012 at 03:37 PM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  10. #30
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    IMO as long as you are getting 30+ percent calories from fat you are likely providing your body with enough material for hormonal well being. Fat is irreplaceable in this respect + large amounts of carbs are not necessary = I err on the side of the hunters rather than the agriculturist societies. Not saying you should not experiment...just don't go low fat on us . Actually I was reading that piece choco posted and came by this piece in the comments The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.Nutrition and health in agriculturalists and hunter-gatherers The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.. Very interesting stuff. I like Stephan's stuff, but he built just as strong a case for a meat centric diet a couple years back....and really nothing of note has changed. Here was his post from then Whole Health Source: Composition of the Hunter-Gatherer Diet.

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