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Thread: Meat doesn't leech calcium after all(?)

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  1. #1
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    Meat doesn't leech calcium after all(?)

    Came across an interesting link

    Sorry, Vegetarians

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    The author seems to confuse vegans and vegetarians. And the 'incomplete protein' arguement is pretty weak.

    Good to know that meat doesn't leech calcium though.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
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    This article is irritating, ignorant, simplistic and propagandist - she babbles about protein and calcium only. In reality, there is a long list of minerals and vitamins necessary for healthy bones (and many are in vegetables). Deficiency of any one is affecting the bones negatively. Excess of any one affects bones negatively.
    Did anyone check how much phosphorus for example is in one single egg? Did anyone one check how much phosphorus for example we should intake to have healthy bones?

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    Quote Originally Posted by anna5 View Post
    This article is irritating, ignorant, simplistic and propagandist - she babbles about protein and calcium only. In reality, there is a long list of minerals and vitamins necessary for healthy bones (and many are in vegetables). Deficiency of any one is affecting the bones negatively. Excess of any one affects bones negatively.
    Did anyone check how much phosphorus for example is in one single egg? Did anyone one check how much phosphorus for example we should intake to have healthy bones?
    It is rather ignorant, but it is nice to know meat doesn't leech calcium, which many people instinctively worry about.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loneketo View Post
    Came across an interesting link

    Sorry, Vegetarians

    Thoughts?
    Well, no. It wouldn't do, would it?

    That it does seems to have been a claim made and endlessly repeated by vegans on the basis of a study from rather a long way back that showed that a group of British lacto-ovo vegetarians (not vegans) had rather greater bone density that some non-vegetarians they were compared with. It's probably to be explained by the fact that they did get adequate protein from the eggs and dairy products, and -- British vegetarians of the day being health-conscious -- probably took more exercise and refrained from other harmful activities such as smoking and drinking and sugar-consumption.

    The bones of ancient Scythians, herders who lived almost entirely on the produce of their flocks, are massively robust -- more so than modern people.

    Anthropological evidence available to us so far indicates that the Scythians were relatively tall. This tallness is particularly noticeable in warrior burials and those of men of the upper social stratum, who would seem tall even today. They are often over 6 ft (1.80 m) in height, sometimes over 6 ft 3 in. (1.90 m), and have occasionally even been known to exceed 6ft 6 in. (2 m). There is a substantial difference in height between members of the upper social stratum and the ordinary people of, on average, 4–6 in. (10–15 cm). Where men are concerned, height can thus without doubt be interpreted as a mark of social status. This phenomenon can be observed all the way to the eastern extremity of the Scythian world. In the Altai graves all those interred who were from the upper social stratum can be distinguished by their height and powerful bodies. All these men are between 5 ft 8 in. (1.76 m) and 6 ft (1.80 m) tall; the men in the common graves are on average 5 ft 4 in. (1.64 m) tall. Anthropological research has established that these skeletons differ from those of today in their longer arm and leg bones and a generally stronger bone formation.
    Renate Rolle: The World of the Scythians

    The world of the Scythians: Renate Rolle: 9780713461091: Amazon.com: Books

    I never heard that African cattle-herders, such as the Nuer, had any problems that way either. The bone material looks larger, better-formed, and more symmetrical to my eyes than that of westerners (although I'll add I'm not a medical man).

    There's too much propaganda and too little regard for the truth in the dietary space. You get some crappy epidemiological study, and pretty soon people are concluding all sorts from it and spinning out mad theories on its basis, and making all sorts of claims merely on the basis of what they wish, for extraneous and irrelevant reasons, to believe.

    The truth is what it is, however little we like it for whatever reason.

    If I were a vegan I should be worried for my bones. This is teeth. That's a bit close for comfort:

    Oral implications of the vegan diet: observational study - Minerva Stomatologica 2010 November-December;59(11-12):583-91 - Minerva Medica - Journals

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    Veganism is an abomination. Period.
    Speaking of Skyphians ... Remember that they didn't spend their lives in cubicles. They had sun, more sun and even more sun. And of course they exercised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anna5 View Post
    Veganism is an abomination. Period.
    There are no periods on that diet.
    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anna5 View Post
    Veganism is an abomination. Period.
    Speaking of Skyphians ... Remember that they didn't spend their lives in cubicles. They had sun, more sun and even more sun. And of course they exercised.

    Absolutely. And obviously meat didn't "leach calcium from their bones" - because, well, it doesn't do that.

    A moment looking at the anthropological and archaelogical evidence ...

    I suggest what causes osteoporosis is probably the consumption of refined carbohydrates. The mechanism by which that might be happening would be a more interesting, and more useful, topic.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Absolutely. And obviously meat didn't "leach calcium from their bones" - because, well, it doesn't do that.

    A moment looking at the anthropological and archaelogical evidence ...

    I suggest what causes osteoporosis is probably the consumption of refined carbohydrates. The mechanism by which that might be happening would be a more interesting, and more useful, topic.
    Yes, refined carbohydrates are guilty as charged.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by anna5 View Post
    Yes, refined carbohydrates are guilty as charged.
    It seems a possibility. After all what does characterize "modern" diets as much as anything? The consumption of these.

    IIRC, Dr. Cate Shanahan suggests in her book that if you train yourself to be a "sugar-burner" -- by over-eating the stuff -- then you will down-regulate your fat-burning enzymes. That means your body may be likely to look for material that it can convert into sugar for you -- and that may mean the protein-matrix in your bones. I've heard that from several people, and it sounds plausible. But when I tried to find an online reference from Cate all I came up with was this:

    Osteoporosis Treatment Without Drugs: The Missing Link to Superior Bone Health | drcate.com

    I suppose the (or one of the) other possible mechanism/s of action would be gut-injury. This seems to be going this way:

    Cooling Inflammation: Osteoporosis

    I have heard that one's gut flora should make vitamin K2, which seems to be absolutely crucial for bone building. Maybe here is another place where gut dysbiosis is implicated -- through excess consumption of refined carbohydrate, antibiotics, lack of sleep, or goodness knows what else.


    However, here's yet another suggestion I came across today that fingers not the presence of refined carbs but the absence of something -- namely, iodine.

    Frahm said his clients who suffer from a weak thyroid exhibit a number of common symptoms including hair loss, fatigue, cold extremities and a lower core temperature. Digestive problems arise like gas, bloating and indigestion. Some people experience swelling in the hands and feet as well as PMS-type symptoms. They don't breathe well, or they don't sleep well. "There's a whole framework of symptoms that people develop," he said. "They don't think they're related but they are related."

    Additionally, some people aren't able to absorb calcium at that point. "When your thyroid function is low, you're moving toward osteoporosis," he said.
    Upcoming Naturopathic Seminar on Breast Cancer Prevention to Focus on Hormonal Balance - Enumclaw, WA Patch

    Someone had posted that today on Jack Kruse's forum. He commented but didn't say much. What he did say was that almost everyone these days is deficient in the nutrients that are most abundantly delivered by seafood, and that's what's really at the root of "Neolithic disease".

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