Meat doesn't leech calcium after all(?) page

[Loneketo]

Came across an interesting link

Sorry, Vegetarians

Thoughts?

[magicmerl]

The author seems to confuse vegans and vegetarians. And the 'incomplete protein' arguement is pretty weak.

Good to know that meat doesn't leech calcium though.

[anna5]

This article is irritating, ignorant, simplistic and propagandist - she babbles about protein and calcium only. In reality, there is a long list of minerals and vitamins necessary for healthy bones (and many are in vegetables). Deficiency of any one is affecting the bones negatively. Excess of any one affects bones negatively.
Did anyone check how much phosphorus for example is in one single egg? Did anyone one check how much phosphorus for example we should intake to have healthy bones?

[Loneketo]

This article is irritating, ignorant, simplistic and propagandist - she babbles about protein and calcium only. In reality, there is a long list of minerals and vitamins necessary for healthy bones (and many are in vegetables). Deficiency of any one is affecting the bones negatively. Excess of any one affects bones negatively.
Did anyone check how much phosphorus for example is in one single egg? Did anyone one check how much phosphorus for example we should intake to have healthy bones?

It is rather ignorant, but it is nice to know meat doesn't leech calcium, which many people instinctively worry about.

[Lewis]

Came across an interesting link

Sorry, Vegetarians

Thoughts?

Well, no. It wouldn't do, would it?

That it does seems to have been a claim made and endlessly repeated by vegans on the basis of a study from rather a long way back that showed that a group of British lacto-ovo vegetarians (not vegans) had rather greater bone density that some non-vegetarians they were compared with. It's probably to be explained by the fact that they did get adequate protein from the eggs and dairy products, and -- British vegetarians of the day being health-conscious -- probably took more exercise and refrained from other harmful activities such as smoking and drinking and sugar-consumption.

The bones of ancient Scythians, herders who lived almost entirely on the produce of their flocks, are massively robust -- more so than modern people.

Anthropological evidence available to us so far indicates that the Scythians were relatively tall. This tallness is particularly noticeable in warrior burials and those of men of the upper social stratum, who would seem tall even today. They are often over 6 ft (1.80 m) in height, sometimes over 6 ft 3 in. (1.90 m), and have occasionally even been known to exceed 6ft 6 in. (2 m). There is a substantial difference in height between members of the upper social stratum and the ordinary people of, on average, 4–6 in. (10–15 cm). Where men are concerned, height can thus without doubt be interpreted as a mark of social status. This phenomenon can be observed all the way to the eastern extremity of the Scythian world. In the Altai graves all those interred who were from the upper social stratum can be distinguished by their height and powerful bodies. All these men are between 5 ft 8 in. (1.76 m) and 6 ft (1.80 m) tall; the men in the common graves are on average 5 ft 4 in. (1.64 m) tall. Anthropological research has established that these skeletons differ from those of today in their longer arm and leg bones and a generally stronger bone formation.

Renate Rolle: The World of the Scythians

The world of the Scythians: Renate Rolle: 9780713461091: Amazon.com: Books

I never heard that African cattle-herders, such as the Nuer, had any problems that way either. The bone material looks larger, better-formed, and more symmetrical to my eyes than that of westerners (although I'll add I'm not a medical man).

There's too much propaganda and too little regard for the truth in the dietary space. You get some crappy epidemiological study, and pretty soon people are concluding all sorts from it and spinning out mad theories on its basis, and making all sorts of claims merely on the basis of what they wish, for extraneous and irrelevant reasons, to believe.

The truth is what it is, however little we like it for whatever reason.

If I were a vegan I should be worried for my bones. This is teeth. That's a bit close for comfort:

Oral implications of the vegan diet: observational study - Minerva Stomatologica 2010 November-December;59(11-12):583-91 - Minerva Medica - Journals

[Lewis]

Apropos the Nuer -- nothing to hand but useful to recapitualate Weston Price's comments from the 30s:

These tribes, therefore, use milk, blood and meat from cattle and large quantities of animal life from the Nile River. Some of the tribes are very tall, particularly the Neurs [sic]. The women are often six feet or over, and the men seven feet, some of them reaching seven and a half feet in height. I was particularly interested in their food habits both because of their high immunity to dental caries which approximated one hundred per cent, and because of their physical development. ...

Nutrition and Physical Degeneration: Chapter 9

I think if your "immunity to dental caries" approaches "one hundred per cent" your bones are probably safe enough ...


EDIT

Is it worth adding is Nature so stupid that it would go ahead and build a skeleton for a seven-and-a-half foot frame if the individual could not access enough calcium (or phosphorous, etc.) from his diet? Maybe so, but I kind of doubt it. If you look at Japanese skeletal material across time, height decreases into the medieval period and increases again in the modern period. The limiting factor would seem to be the amount of protein in the diet. Protein is important for bone-building.

[anna5]

Veganism is an abomination. Period.
Speaking of Skyphians ... Remember that they didn't spend their lives in cubicles. They had sun, more sun and even more sun. And of course they exercised.

[Alex Good]

Veganism is an abomination. Period.

There are no periods on that diet.

[Lewis]

Veganism is an abomination. Period.
Speaking of Skyphians ... Remember that they didn't spend their lives in cubicles. They had sun, more sun and even more sun. And of course they exercised.

Absolutely. And obviously meat didn't "leach calcium from their bones" - because, well, it doesn't do that.

A moment looking at the anthropological and archaelogical evidence ...

I suggest what causes osteoporosis is probably the consumption of refined carbohydrates. The mechanism by which that might be happening would be a more interesting, and more useful, topic.

[anna5]

Absolutely. And obviously meat didn't "leach calcium from their bones" - because, well, it doesn't do that.

A moment looking at the anthropological and archaelogical evidence ...

I suggest what causes osteoporosis is probably the consumption of refined carbohydrates. The mechanism by which that might be happening would be a more interesting, and more useful, topic.

Yes, refined carbohydrates are guilty as charged.