Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37

Thread: Can someone address the saturated fat issue again

Hybrid View

  1. #1

    Can someone address the saturated fat issue again

    I say again because I'm assuming it has been addressed.


    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/wp-co...d-Sat-Fats.mp3

    I'm refering to this clip, Cordain references an obscure paper that shows EXTENSIVE endothelial damage in a mummy of a frozen Inuit.

    Now heres a person who is well adapted to a high saturated fat diet, and is eating as clean of animals as you can get. I think that it's important that they are somewhat adapted to that diet, because I think it would be even more problematic for someone who is not. In the same way that you would not expect a Pima Indian to function optimally on a mostly fruit diet.

    I would also like to deflect any comments about alternative hypothesis(aside from diet) as to the coronary plaque, as the Kitivans have shown us that conventional risk factors for heart disease(smoking) do not necessarily contribute to it when the diet is in order. I am aware that they did consume some saturated fat in terms of coconut but it was not the dominant macronutrient.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    3,913
    Quote Originally Posted by straxville View Post
    I say again because I'm assuming it has been addressed.


    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/wp-co...d-Sat-Fats.mp3

    I'm refering to this clip, Cordain references an obscure paper that shows EXTENSIVE endothelial damage in a mummy of a frozen Inuit.

    Now heres a person who is well adapted to a high saturated fat diet, and is eating as clean of animals as you can get. I think that it's important that they are somewhat adapted to that diet, because I think it would be even more problematic for someone who is not. In the same way that you would not expect a Pima Indian to function optimally on a mostly fruit diet.

    I would also like to deflect any comments about alternative hypothesis(aside from diet) as to the coronary plaque, as the Kitivans have shown us that conventional risk factors for heart disease(smoking) do not necessarily contribute to it when the diet is in order. I am aware that they did consume some saturated fat in terms of coconut but it was not the dominant macronutrient.
    Do they know how old he was when he died? If he had endeolithal damage, but still lived to a healthy, happy, ripe old age before he croaked, that's evidence enough for me that the protective benefits of the fat outweighed the damages.

    Just because there were some negatives (and there always is), it doesn't mean the positives won't outweigh them.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    9,414
    Tough to say when his 3 studies that are so obscure nobody else can look into the methodology

    He is "on record saying ....risk factor of saturated fats in the paleo diet is low and not atherogenic" so thats his take away. Stearic acid he rates as fine... palmatic acid he's not sure about. There is not significant evidence one way or another.

    Goes on to say "even though they may of had plaque build up they may NEVER have suffered an MI......" seems like a very important point.

    "Plaque doesn't kill you, the rupture of the plaque does".....he doesn't believe this happened in the inuit because their diet was not pro-inflammatory. Elements in the western diet upregulate the enzymes that directly cause the rupture of the fibrous cap.

    Those are some of the important points in my book.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    9,414
    Doesn't jive with all the other data out there on saturated fats and I think Cordain has sort of painted himself into this corner of having to defend a slightly lower fat type of paleo. Or maybe he hasn't and this is just his reading of the data. Either way I've seen enough evidence outside of this single report on a couple obscure autopsies to be certain that I'm not concerned.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Doesn't jive with all the other data out there on saturated fats and I think Cordain has sort of painted himself into this corner of having to defend a slightly lower fat type of paleo. Or maybe he hasn't and this is just his reading of the data. Either way I've seen enough evidence outside of this single report on a couple obscure autopsies to be certain that I'm not concerned.
    And what evidence is that? A coronary autopsy is a sophisticated method of determining vascular health. Outside of preforming coronary angiograms on people, and evaluating their progression(this is actually the test Dean Ornish and Caldwell Essylstein use) there are no good ways of measuring arterial plaque, to collect data on this or that. Even triglycerides aren't that sensitive or specific as to whats really going on. Calcium score is a very poor test, also.

    I find it troublesome an Innuit who was eating as pristine of meat as you can possibly find, as well as having been genetically adapted to eating that food still suffered from arterial calcification.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    981
    Quote Originally Posted by straxville View Post
    And what evidence is that? A coronary autopsy is a sophisticated method of determining vascular health. Outside of preforming coronary angiograms on people, and evaluating their progression(this is actually the test Dean Ornish and Caldwell Essylstein use) there are no good ways of measuring arterial plaque, to collect data on this or that. Even triglycerides aren't that sensitive or specific as to whats really going on. Calcium score is a very poor test, also.

    I find it troublesome an Innuit who was eating as pristine of meat as you can possibly find, as well as having been genetically adapted to eating that food still suffered from arterial calcification.

    The inuit were on an extreme diet. Whether or not it causes atherosclerosis is debatable. Follow a well rounded diet and you won't have to really worry whether it applies to you or not.
    The inuit also used seal oil lamps which could have resulted in them breathing in a lot of toxic smoke that can cause diseases like emphysema and atherosclerosis.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    10,514
    Quote Originally Posted by straxville View Post
    I find it troublesome an Innuit who was eating as pristine of meat as you can possibly find, as well as having been genetically adapted to eating that food still suffered from arterial calcification.
    You are blaming the diet without knowing anything else about this individual. Perhaps he had been marginalized from his community and underwent a lot of stress or starvation. Perhaps he had infections or parasites. All we have is one mummy and a whole lot of assumptions about X causing Y.
    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    9,414
    Observational, but still interesting in context of the discussion Dietary fats, carbohydrate, and progression o... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

  9. #9
    Drumroll having coronary plaque causes a lot of problems from erectile dysfunction to headaches galore. Now, in order for it to rupture and cause an MI you need several events to take place that did not happen. And one of the bodies was 30 years old and was severely osteoporotic. Listen to the clip
    Last edited by straxville; 10-12-2012 at 08:05 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    9,414
    Quote Originally Posted by straxville View Post
    Drumroll having coronary plaque causes a lot of problems from erectile dysfunction to headaches galore.
    Is this not just an extrapolation of your assumptions about plaque? I didn't hear anything in the discussion to this regard. Whose to say that without the inflammatory markers you may not experience such symptoms?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •