Fasted High Intensity Resistance Training page 2

[Neckhammer]

I agree that a long boxing/sparring session is not what I would call HIT. You definitely have a need for "burst" strength which is sprint like....then you have your low and slow gear where your in a ready state. I was a wrestler and these sort of one on one combative sports are very much alike. I might consider carbing up a bit after weigh-ins, but I see no reason you should need to do so for training....in fact I would say that most people competing in this regard are training at a caloric deficit to make weight, so ketosis may well be optimal so that you retain lean mass and are more metabolically fit for competition. If you "feel great" doing it then I'd say stick with it. If not, then I would consider a potato to help you replenish (if your depleting and not giving enough time to recouperate)

On to the next thing. Slow burn and BBS are both what is called superslow protocol and IS a technique utilized and under the umbrella of HIT. Complex exercises (primarily) with little to no rest until momentary muscular failure at high intensity.

[not on the rug]

On to the next thing. Slow burn and BBS are both what is called superslow protocol and IS a technique utilized and under the umbrella of HIT. Complex exercises (primarily) with little to no rest until momentary muscular failure at high intensity.

interesting...i guess i hadn't looked it that way

[LowCarbMaster]

I am not trying to jump all over you, and i definitely want to help you out. but there are some things jumping out at me that i want to point out. i'm just going to list them.

i'm not sure what performance advantage one could gain from being in ketosis, particularly as a boxer. just not seeing it. could you explain what you mean?

you should definitely read the article robb wolf did on the post workout carb debate.

i also can't see how a slow burn or body by science workout would be in any way beneficial to a competitive boxer. how has it helped you more than other strength training programs?

maybe if you gave us a little more info about your workouts, your current bodyfat percentage, etc. if you are seeing extreme gains in strength and fat loss, then you're probably going to do well in ketosis for a while. i would imagine that once your bodyfat level drops enough, you'll start to see some negativity.

not to bring it up again, but if you are a boxer, and you train as such, this is not HIT training. sparring sessions, roadwork, padwork, etc are not HIT workouts. i also wouldn't categorize slow burn/BBS is HIT either.

now to my personal opinion. i am able to do some short slow-burn cardio in a fasted state, and some brief (15-20 minute) HIT training in a fasted state. I however, do not do well with long bike rides, long boxing training sessions, or heavy weight training in a fasted state. i have to eat something an hour before i do any of those, or i will feel sick, not perform well, etc.

No judgement taken, I totally appreciate the help and discussion.

Ketosis: When it comes to training in ketosis, I find my main benefit in consistent energy. I find that I have more consistent energy throughout the day and through out my workouts, no matter the intensity. Before being keto-adapted, I use to spar and when I reach a certain point, I begin to get kind of dizzy and nauseous. Same if I didn't consume enough carbs before or after a workout. Where as in ketosis, if I don't consume enough saturated fat, my body can easily and readily break down body fat for fuel, so I'm never at a loss there.

Slow Burn My routine before, for a few years was 3 days a week. I did a basic push/pull strength and then I switched to a high intensity circuit training consisting of cleans, muscle ups, lunges, clap push ups, etc.

Now, under slow burn, I have made more gains in strength, more loss in body fat and my endurance has broken the plateau. This is all in a short amount of time too. Also, since I am working out once a week, the major benefit is that I can do more sparring (skill practice) than I was able to do previously.

Stats My workout is every monday and consists of:
leg press
chest press
shoulder press
weighted pull up
seated row
sit ups

I do every exercise with slow movement until failure. My entire workout takes about 15 min.

My BF% is questionable. Although I don't have a direct measure. I now have a visible 6 pack where as before, with my previous routines I did not. My 1 rep max has went up on all my previous lefts when I tested them again and with measurements, I can see my mass has increased. I went from 193lbs-182lbs in one week and all the other measurements have been done after 3 weeks of this type of training.

I agree with you about the boxing training not really being high intensity. I don't do any commercial boxing training. In my opinion I find myself doing better with just a lot of sparring instead of the other routines.



Scott: Thanks for the info on BCAA's. I'm totally going to look into that.


Neckhammer: I use to do the burst stuff with my old routine, but I feel much faster and stronger under this training regime. It might have to do with more sparring time. I don't know. I'm trying to sort of figure out what fits where and what to tweak.

Thanks for all your input and discussion guys

What do you guys think of training frequency?

Would you guys prefer natural protein sources over powders?

[Neckhammer]

Neckhammer: I use to do the burst stuff with my old routine, but I feel much faster and stronger under this training regime. It might have to do with more sparring time. I don't know. I'm trying to sort of figure out what fits where and what to tweak.

Actually I lift BBS so I know what you are talking about. I was speaking to the sport of boxing. It is periodic bursts of speed (combos and defense) intermixed with a lot of low to medium intensity movement and readiness. I wasnt implying that you needed burst training outside of your skill work.

Thanks for all your input and discussion guys

What do you guys think of training frequency?

For a HIT protocol with lots of skill work its excellent.

Would you guys prefer natural protein sources over powders?

Yes, but I'm not a protein nazi about it. My wife and I use whey when we are in a rush.

My answers in bold...

[LowCarbMaster]

Great discussion. So back to the fasted thing. Would there be any benefits to consuming protein before a workout? What do you guys think? I personally save the protein for after, when protein synthesis is highest. If BCAA's help, I'll add those with the coffee, creatine and minerals I consume before the gym.

[not on the rug]

i know a lot of people are nuts over the bcaas before fasted training, but i'm not sold on it to be honest with you. i'd say save your money. i'd say to take the creatine and everything else post-workout too. maybe just do the coffee/caffeine pre-workout.

[heatseeker]

I used to have nothing but coffee before Crossfit, and I was getting dizzy, shaky, and nauseous during the workout. I started having BCAAs pre- and mid-workout and it fixed me right up. It's super duper not Primal, but I love Purple Wraath.

[not on the rug]

I used to have nothing but coffee before Crossfit, and I was getting dizzy, shaky, and nauseous during the workout. I started having BCAAs pre- and mid-workout and it fixed me right up. It's super duper not Primal, but I love Purple Wraath.

the bcaas would have nothing to do with stopping you from feeling shaky/dizzy etc. that was more than likely caused by stopping the caffeine on an empty stomach. bcaas allegedly just help preserve muscle tissue while working out in a fasted state.

[heatseeker]

No, I still have the coffee. I just also have BCAAs. My muscles used to tire quickly and get shaky. Now they don't. Draw whatever conclusions you'd like.