Polyamoruous Love Sickness: Can This Be Primal? page 8

[LordPistacchio]

Holy Crap! You told her? Brave man.

Just know, I totally "get" where you are coming from.

Your wife is great to be so understanding.

I think because the focus has been on the relationship with OW I've failed to convey what a wonderful relationship I have with my wife. We have almost no friends left who are still in their first marriage and know all too well how much damage poor communication causes.

So when I told her that I was thinking of seeing my counselor again and she asked why...I couldn't lie. She would have seen through it anyway. I was worried it would hurt her, not that I'd be in the doghouse. I just had to promise to keep it in my pants and work on getting my head straight. And avoid getting liquored-up in front of the fire with our cute friend.

And, Pebbles, I think you do "get it", and it's a comfort to not be alone.

[LordPistacchio]

good god, "odds and ends" is turning into a real soap opera lately.

you know that we endeavor to eat like cavemen, not act, look or justify our lives by them?

You know, there might be a soap opera flavor to some of this, but, besides sleep, one of the most neglected aspects of what is espoused as "Primal" is the social. Interpersonal relationships are damn complicated and when they go wrong can be painful and damaging on several levels. I honestly think that addressing issues like this is far more beneficial from a Primal perspective than how many eggs someone has for breakfast.

[Sabre]

Well, if you know you are making really stupid generalizations... don't?

You are talking about individual personality differences not sex differences.

Fraid not. There are sex differences in how jealousy is typically manifested (it's robust and has been replicated--See David Buss on jealousy), and within each individual there's obviously variation.

So don't say "stupid generalisations" until you know what you're talking about

(prediction: you try to poison the well)

[cori93437]

Fraid not. There are sex differences in how jealousy is typically manifested (it's robust and has been replicated--See David Buss on jealousy), and within each individual there's obviously variation.

So don't say "stupid generalisations" until you know what you're talking about

(prediction: you try to poison the well)

Except that what you are talking about doesn't work across the board for all members of the same sex.
I've taken plenty of psych classes, and communicated with to plenty of psychologists on sex/gender issues for research...
My own cousin holds a PhD in psych... while generalizations can be handy (research, some analysis), they can also be dangerous (application to everyday life and expectations placed on real people). There is a reason for the saying "not all of the people, all of the time". There is a significant portion of the population that lies outside of the standard gender markers that they self identify with when it comes to matching sex.

Not all women respond with typical feminine responses.
Not all men respond with typical masculine responses.
There are responses that fall in between, and responses that occur opposite to sex.

Of course... there are always those that prefer reductionist theories.
I have seen work by both male and female researchers that falls victim to such confirmation bias.

[Uncephalized]

Maybe. Maybe very, very accurate. But also we should remember how amazingly awesome it was to feel ALIVE and passionate and have FEELINGS when we were teenagers. I think to gain back some of that intensity in an otherwise humdrum existence would be pretty intoxicating and addictive. Perhaps I'm projecting, but I feel sympathy for the OP. He's trying to be ethical and respectful in a situation where his emotions are driving the bus. It feels real, hyper-real to him.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm sure OP's feelings are genuine, but in remembering past experiences I realized how incredibly easy it is to idealize and obsess over a woman--ESPECIALLY an unavailable woman--who isn't really deserving of the devotion, and who plays on your emotions for the attention/validation. It happened to me several times before I met my first serious girlfriend, who WAS deserving of such devotion, being generally awesome, and who, lo and behold, later became my lovely wife.

All I'm saying is the OW could easily be one of "those" women, but it's impossible for us to know given we are only getting a limited amount of information from one perspective, and certainly not a neutral one at that. I definitely empathize with the OP and wish him the least possible suffering in what I know is likely an intensely painful and gut-wrenching emotional trial.

OP, I'm glad to hear you chose "the straight and narrow" and are working things out with your wife. I hoped you would, and I'm very happy to hear that she is reacting well. Good luck!

[liminal_luke]

The thought and energy that I put into my wife and children are the things that drew OW to me. I'm not sure she's really witnessed that from a man toward a woman before.

LordPistacchio--

To me, this quote is key to what might be going on here, to understanding what might be driving your attraction to the OW, and, ultimately, to resolving the issue.

Things we know:

(1) The OW picked a real jerk of a guy to get married to.

(2) You are not a jerk. OW is learning from you that not all guys are jerks. Some guys are rather nice.

(3) I might be going out on a limb with this one, but I'm going to say it: you like being held up as the non-jerk representative of the male gender, and this is a big part of what's in this for you.

Your wife on the other hand doesn't need your help to know that guys aren't all jerks. She already knows that. Knew that a long time ago. That's probably why she picked you--a good guy--in the first place. Your wife doesn't need you to rescue her from the less than savory aspects of the male gender. She's rescued herself. And that, clearly, is no fun. It makes your wife a great partner. It makes your wife someone whose genuinely capable of intimacy. It makes your relationship with your wife relatively drama free (look, you've survived being married all these years). But clearly you like the drama a little bit. If you want to really figure this out I'd look into that.

Meanwhile know this: women who need your shining example to show them all guys aren't jerks can be fun but they don't make great partners in the end. You deserve better, you deserve your wife.

[patski]

sorry, i should have been more clear. I'm sure op's feelings are genuine, but in remembering past experiences i realized how incredibly easy it is to idealize and obsess over a woman--especially an unavailable woman--who isn't really deserving of the devotion, and who plays on your emotions for the attention/validation.

this.

[qqemokitty]

I think because the focus has been on the relationship with OW I've failed to convey what a wonderful relationship I have with my wife. We have almost no friends left who are still in their first marriage and know all too well how much damage poor communication causes.

So when I told her that I was thinking of seeing my counselor again and she asked why...I couldn't lie. She would have seen through it anyway. I was worried it would hurt her, not that I'd be in the doghouse. I just had to promise to keep it in my pants and work on getting my head straight. And avoid getting liquored-up in front of the fire with our cute friend.

And, Pebbles, I think you do "get it", and it's a comfort to not be alone.

I am so glad that coming clean has worked out for you thus far. Now perhaps it makes me a less than stellar person but I crave the next chapter in this saga. Please do let us know what happens next. >.<

[cori93437]

I am so glad that coming clean has worked out for you thus far. Now perhaps it makes me a less than stellar person but I crave the next chapter in this saga. Please do let us know what happens next. >.<

Tune in for the next episode of Keeping up with the Grokdashians, right here on MDA!.

[LordPistacchio]

(3) I might be going out on a limb with this one, but I'm going to say it: you like being held up as the non-jerk representative of the male gender, and this is a big part of what's in this for you.

When I told my wife about OW, one of the reasons she gave for being so unconcerned is that my association with OW has had a noticeably positive effect on our marriage. You see, I had always been good at the mechanics of being a husband/father. I've always done housework, cooking, diaper changing, homework, etc., without complaint. I never cheated or gambled and was present as much as possible (not a golfer).

I thought this made me a good husband. Now, none of those things are bad, and I still do them, but in talking to OW about all of her problems she was most upset at feeling neglected by her husband. It occurred to me that I had been negligent in many of the same ways and wasn't making my wife feel beautiful, sexy, fun - someone I wanted to be around because she was desirable rather than an obligation.

So I guess why your comment hit me so hard is that it's true. I made many small (very small, but meaningful) changes that had profound benefits on my relationship with my wife. This was partly to show OW what she should expect from a good man...but I'm pretty sure my motivation became skewed at some point.

Which is just one more thing I'll screw up if I don't get my head on straight. How can I possibly be an example of a good guy if I create situations where we could end up drunk and screwing in the back yard?