Research that vegan diet is best and our ancestors were not big meat eaters page 9

[cori93437]

No, you are not doing the research. You are regurgitating the research other people have done and then expecting people like Mark Sisson and Robb Wolf to bankroll something you think is important. Why don't you do that yourself instead of expecting other people to do it for you? Why don't you provide a valuable service to millions of people and use that money to find the answers?

I respect the successful results of people in my life (and on the internet) more than I respect a study. Especially when the results of those studies contradict everything I and many others experience. It makes no sense! It's like studies coming out saying you should press the brake to accelerate on a car--it does not withstand reality. That is, the evidence in front of my eyes is more important than some grain and soy-funded university professor's findings.

Realize that many people on this forum think this scientism obsession is foolish in comparison to what actually works.

And lets not forget the the university professors who have tried to publish papers that contained information that didn't meet approval of the "funding"... and how their careers ended.
Yes, it has indeed happened.

[Dulcimina]

His Omega 3 claim is even more out of this world, he claims you cannot get Omega 3 on a plant based diet.... really!? A basic web search returns:

"Common sources of n–3 fatty acids include fish oils, algal oil, squid oil, and some plant oils such as echium oil and flaxseed oil."

I haven't watched the video, so I don't know about the claims of being unable to get omega-3 fatty acids from plants. But I thought that DHA/EPA (animal sources) were the active version of these FAs in terms of reducing inflammation, not ALA (plant sources). ALA can be converted to DHA or EPA, but only at a very low rate. So could his statement have been shorthand for this?

[Dulcimina]

Look at around 30 mins. His claims are just out of this world. Apparently, deficiencies YOU WILL develop as a vegan:

Zinc, Iron, Omega-3, Iodine, B6 from eating vegan.... really!?

Any simple search will show that for any of these vitamins/minerals there are many plant/vegetation types in the top 10 providers for each nutrient. These include:

Toasted Wheat Germ, Pumpkin and squash seeds, watermelon seeds, chocolate, peanuts, spinach, collards, prunes, raisins, Beans, lentils, chick peas, soybeans, kelp, arame, hiziki, kombu, wakame, cranberries, navy beans, strawberries, salt, potatoes, bread, oatmeal, wheat germ, rice, soya beans, peanuts.

What is the bio-availability of the mentioned nutrients from these sources? I was curious, and found what reads like a pro-vegetarian review article . I say "pro-vegetarian because the conclusion of the article is that

vegetarians typically have lower body mass index, serum total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, and blood pressure; reduced rates of death from ischemic heart disease; and decreased incidence of hypertension, stroke, type 2 diabetes, and certain cancers than do nonvegetarians

Vitamin D

Low vitamin D intakes,5 low serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels,6 and reduced bone mass7 have been reported in some vegan groups who did not take vitamin D supplements or ingest fortified foods such as cow’s milk; yogurt; some brands of soymilk, rice milk, and orange juice; breakfast cereals; and margarines.[...]Intake of vitamin D by vegans tends to be substantially below that of lacto-ovo-vegetarians and nonvegetarians (see Table 1).

The bold/underline is mine to indicate that some of these sources might not naturally be enriched in this vitamin.

Vitamin B12

Because of inadequate consumption, the vitamin B12 status of some vegetarians is less than adequate6,9 Although dairy and eggs are good sources of vitamin B12 for the lacto-ovo-vegetarian, vegans must obtain their vitamin B12 either from a regular use of vitamin B12-fortified foods,

ω-3 (n-3) Fatty Acids

Compared with nonvegetarians, vegetarians (and particularly vegans) tend to have lower blood levels of the long-chain ω-3 fatty acids, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).10[..].For the vegan, certain microalgae are a good source of DHA, and the oil from brown algae (kelp) is a source of EPA. Rich sources of α-linolenic acid (ALA), the precursor of EPA and DHA, include flaxseed, walnuts, canola oil, chia seed, and soy. However, the bioconversion of ALA to EPA is generally less than 10% in humans, whereas the conversion of ALA to DHA is substantially less.11

Calcium

Calcium intakes of lacto-vegetarians are similar to, or may be higher than, those of nonvegetarians, whereas intakes of vegans tend to be lower than both groups and may fall below recommended intakes6 (see also Table 1).[...]Calcium absorption is considerably reduced by oxalates (spinach, Swiss chard) and phytates (nuts, whole grains).

Iron

Vegetarians often have an iron intake that is similar to or slightly better than that of nonvegetarians (see Table 1), so the issue of iron adequacy is really one of iron bioavailability. Incidence of iron-deficiency anemia is common among vegetarians and nonvegetarians alike.6 [...]Soaking and sprouting beans and grains as well as leavening of bread can diminish phytate levels and enhance iron absorption.

Zinc

Although overt zinc deficiency has not been seen in Western vegetarians, their zinc intakes may be marginal or fall below recommendations (see Table 1). In addition, zinc bioavailability from vegetarian diets is lower than from nonvegetarian diets, mainly due to their higher phytic acid content.18 With vegetarians consuming diets rich in unrefined grains, nuts, and legumes, their zinc requirements may exceed the RDA.

So the speaker may have mixed up B-6 and B-12, but he seems spot on in terms of the nutritional availability of the other micronutrients that were mentioned.

[Sandra in BC]

EDIT: sorry maybe that was harsh so let me explain. If you have an inane ability to read I am criticising your reading ability in a negative way. I am saying you have an inability to read a.k.a your reading is not substantial which therefore means it is insubstantial another word for which is inane!

"...I am saying.... a.k.a... which therefore means... another word for... which is... "

Maybe you should just say what you mean the first time around. And use fewer words. Small ones too. We bore easily if there is no bacon as a reward.

Why are you here? Refresh my memory.

[interzone]

I hope no one here actually believes that eenu is anything other than a troll looking to make trouble.

Dear eenu,
You're not really going to get wild, emotional responses here. If that's what you want (and what troll doesn't?), the real fun is in messing with vegans who do it for "ethical reasons". Hopefully you've also found your way onto some of those forums and are posting videos and articles about the astonishing number of cute, fuzzy bunnies with wiggly noses that die in wheat threshers every growing season. If you'd like to vegan troll this forum again I highly advise setting up another account, spending a few months randomly posting "Grok on!" responses and "My SAD coworkers/family eat garbage every day, how can I make them see the light?" threads, then drop the V-bomb. It'll be much more convincing than what you've done here.
Lots of love,
Interzone

[magicmerl]

I hope no one here actually believes that eenu is anything other than a troll looking to make trouble.

I had hopes that they were something other than a troll.

But it's obvious from their posts here that that's all they are doing.

Ah well. Another thread, another ignore function used.

[cori93437]

I hope no one here actually believes that eenu is anything other than a troll looking to make trouble.

Dear eenu,
You're not really going to get wild, emotional responses here. If that's what you want (and what troll doesn't?), the real fun is in messing with vegans who do it for "ethical reasons". Hopefully you've also found your way onto some of those forums and are posting videos and articles about the astonishing number of cute, fuzzy bunnies with wiggly noses that die in wheat threshers every growing season. If you'd like to vegan troll this forum again I highly advise setting up another account, spending a few months randomly posting "Grok on!" responses and "My SAD coworkers/family eat garbage every day, how can I make them see the light?" threads, then drop the V-bomb. It'll be much more convincing than what you've done here.
Lots of love,
Interzone

It's true...

At least all the cute fuzzy bunnies that die for me are completely intentional and go onto my plate instead of being wasted, left to rot in some field.

Meat may be murder but, Wheat(grains) is mass murder.

[Dirlot]

It's true...

At least all the cute fuzzy bunnies that die for me are completely intentional and go onto my plate instead of being wasted, left to rot in some field.

Meat may be murder but, Wheat(grains) is mass murder.

+1 but I prefer to think as meat as culling the herd.

[canuck416]

Hi Eenu...I posted this before and didn't get a response. Very well researched article and pertinent to the discussion.

http://www.gregdavis.ca/share/paleo-...yd%20Eaton.pdf

Also this video is outstanding - The Vegetarian Myth - YouTube

[Diana Renata]

Don't. *head/desk*
Feed. *head/desk*
The. *head/desk*
Trolls. *head/desk*