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Thread: Research that vegan diet is best and our ancestors were not big meat eaters page 2

  1. #11
    Dirlot's Avatar
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    Where is the research? All I saw was a couple of sound bites from known non/low meat eaters.

    Here Denise Minger takes the data from the China Study and actually looks at the results and the comments made by the studies authors who had a non/low meat bias to begin with.

    The China Study: Fact or Fallacy? « Raw Food SOS
    One Year Later: The China Study, Revisited and Re-Bashed « Raw Food SOS
    http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/for...-and-critique/

    As I say the fun part is she uses their data that chose to ignore.

    Any diet that promotes whole natural foods over processed crap will be an improvement and if you have some actual research I would love to see it.

    IMHO Veganism is not sustainable do to lack of essential nutrients and the huge amount of living creatures unnecessarily murdered.
    Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
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  2. #12
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    *duplicate post*
    Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    Well.... for me, it led to being stuck as a morbidly obese vegan that needed to kill myself with exercise to acheive a level of "regular" obesity.

    I think vegetarianism *might* work if you can keep from falling into overeating sugar and grain products. If you can do that, hats off. Most can't.

    Mark may not be a medical professional, but to be honest, I haven't been impressed by medical professionals advice. It straight up doesn't work for a lot of people and the accusation that you are somehow "out of control" or "lack willpower" is meaningless.

    So what's better- morbidly obese veganism OR normal weight meateater?
    I'd be interested to know what you were eating on a vegan diet that was making you obese i.e. what your typical weekly diet was - thats a question out of general interest not being sarcastic or funny.

    As for medical professionals - I don't trust them by and large i.e. GPs, Hospitals etc, but trust more in the medical research side of things and the trials and experiments that have been conducted on the subject matter.

    I agree with your vegetarianism comment, hence my modifications to my diet.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirlot View Post
    Where is the research? All I saw was a couple of sound bites from known non/low meat eaters.


    Any diet that promotes whole natural foods over processed crap will be an improvement and if you have some actual research I would love to see it.
    Did you even watch the video? The titles, authors and journals of all papers are displayed. From there you can use google to obtain the paper and read it for yourself. Same for the website, all paper info is clearly displayed and you can easily obtain the papers and read for yourself.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eenu View Post
    Did you even watch the video? The titles, authors and journals of all papers are displayed. From there you can use google to obtain the paper and read it for yourself. Same for the website, all paper info is clearly displayed and you can easily obtain the papers and read for yourself.
    I have seen some of the links before and read articles written by both of them which are full of misinformation and poor logic . If you have a particular paper you would like me to read please post it- I hope you checked out my links.
    Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
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  6. #16
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    A lot of fruits and vegetables, soy foods (mix of tofu and stuff like tofurkey), beans, wheat stuff like tortillas, apple cider, bread and soy margarine. Rice, Indian food, ethnic foods that are vegan, pasta. Oatmeal with soy milk.

    It was a pretty varied diet, not a fully "junk food" vegan diet, not a full on whole foods only vegan diet.

    I think it is a small % of people who could be vegetarian or vegan and not eat the junk foods. I'm from the belief that all the research in the world is fine, but if people can't comply the diet is pointless. I did not know many vegans or vegetarians that ate a clean diet (ie, vegetables, whole grains, fruits and legumes). Most ate a good deal of processed (including myself)- because that clean diet isn't satisfying.

    Primal (and Paleo) to me, is the best combination of clean foods PLUS satisfaction which= compliance over a long term. I had short segments of time where I are clean vegan or vegetarian, but measured in weeks, not months. I see a lot of women vegetarians who are full on raging sugar addicts (like I once was).

    So I don't know, maybe the science proves that a vegan diet is best, but I have a feeling once you start looking at the processed foods, it's not much better than SAD. Given that most vegans eat the "fake foods" because it is such an unsatisfying way to eat, it's about impossible to practice.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirlot View Post
    I have seen some of the links before and read articles written by both of them which are full of misinformation and poor logic . If you have a particular paper you would like me to read please post it- I hope you checked out my links.
    As I said watch the video and google the papers. I think your talking about the actual movie, I am talking about the presentation video on my link.

    As for her site, wow, I could pick holes in it all day long. I have only skimmed it so far but if she was a really clever girl (same for the individuals that made the film) she would realise basing evidence on diet from 1940's is a huge flaw in itself. There are SO many variables that are different these days that make that data completely bunk. From farming methods, GM crops, pesticides, increase in mercury incidence in fish etc etc etc. Maybe I have misread, I will read in detail later.

    EDIT: Just looking in particular at her 5 and 10% casien remarks, if you actually read the paper it clearly states 10% is optimum, she is as guilty as the guys in the film for 'polishing the turd' when it comes to presenting some of the data.... not saying she does that throughout but thats just one point I picked up on within 10 mins. I will continue to investigate.

    If you watch the video I linked too and look at those papers they all range from 1970's until the present day recent research over the last decade with actual data on humans, not rats, flies or any other animal is credible.

    I am not saying people should go vegan, merely pointing out that there is very very substantial data showing the effects of a high/pure plant based diet. Is this the effect of how your meat is farmed or how it goes from a field to your plate? I don't know yet I am still reading around the subject.

    One thing I do know though, if you come to this site and follow it without question your doing better than most. It would be foolish to think everything Mark says is correct though. Mark tells you to eat nuts, the Bullet proof exec tells you they are covered in mycotoxins. Who is correct? what do you eat? For every positive on a food there is a negative. I have studied three main sites that have huge followings on the net. If I religiously implemented them all, I would only eat coconut milk, vegetables and berries... All provide credible evidence and they all have dedicated followers.... Apply all 3 and you come out with a vegan diet.

    So what do you do?
    Last edited by eenu; 10-08-2012 at 10:14 AM.

  8. #18
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    Those videos, particularly the first one, have been posted here perhaps hundreds of times by people trolling vegetarianism/veganism.

    And we've had quite a bit of McDougall discussion too...

    The I've watched the first one, and an in depth examination of it's "facts" by several different such as Denise Minger.
    I'm just not even interested in any examination of the second.
    Maybe examine some other stuff... Primal Body Primal Mind by Nora Gedguadas

    Or... go be a vegan and have fun with that. *shrug*
    But trying to convince people here that it's "healthier" is likely a serious shot in the dark.
    Also... a healthful diet is a personal thing IMO. Why are you trying to rope people into YOUR idea of healthful, when you know that's not what is considered the way to go at this site. I don't go to vegan sites and tell people to eat meat even though I believe it would be better for them.
    There are many vegan sites out there, I bet it would be easy for you to find one.


    I personally would suffer greatly as I have diagnosed medical issues that are corrected by very specifically avoiding the autoimmune reactions that I have from grains/gluten, and by NOT eating starches/high carb...
    Last edited by cori93437; 10-08-2012 at 10:02 AM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    A lot of fruits and vegetables, soy foods (mix of tofu and stuff like tofurkey), beans, wheat stuff like tortillas, apple cider, bread and soy margarine. Rice, Indian food, ethnic foods that are vegan, pasta. Oatmeal with soy milk.

    It was a pretty varied diet, not a fully "junk food" vegan diet, not a full on whole foods only vegan diet.

    I think it is a small % of people who could be vegetarian or vegan and not eat the junk foods. I'm from the belief that all the research in the world is fine, but if people can't comply the diet is pointless. I did not know many vegans or vegetarians that ate a clean diet (ie, vegetables, whole grains, fruits and legumes). Most ate a good deal of processed (including myself)- because that clean diet isn't satisfying.

    Primal (and Paleo) to me, is the best combination of clean foods PLUS satisfaction which= compliance over a long term. I had short segments of time where I are clean vegan or vegetarian, but measured in weeks, not months. I see a lot of women vegetarians who are full on raging sugar addicts (like I once was).

    So I don't know, maybe the science proves that a vegan diet is best, but I have a feeling once you start looking at the processed foods, it's not much better than SAD. Given that most vegans eat the "fake foods" because it is such an unsatisfying way to eat, it's about impossible to practice.
    Hey, thanks for the reply. Appreciate you telling us how you found it etc.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    Why are you trying to rope people into YOUR idea of healthful, when you know that's not what is considered the way to go at this site. I don't go to vegan sites and tell people to eat meat even though I believe it would be better for them.
    There are many vegan sites out there, I bet it would be easy to find one.
    Sorry, where am I telling anyone to do anything? I think you should read what is written, several times I have clearly said I am not saying it is better merely that the science backs it. I have also clearly said I eat meat and will continue.

    The whole point of this forum is to show other points of view. Seeing what others say, what the science is saying is an important way to make informed choices!

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