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Thread: EAT MOAR TATERS! Huh? page 49

  1. #481
    primal_jessjane's Avatar
    primal_jessjane is offline Senior Member
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    I just don't get this...... I tried eating 3 potatoes this morning (~500 calories), plus a very ripe banana (so mostly glucose), and was hungry 3hrs later. I was thinking, screw this, if I am hungry every 3hrs then how is this going to work? I'd love to fit into my jeans again but I can't see how this works if you are eating too much of anything. I just don't geeet it!

  2. #482
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    Yeah, it's not magic or anything, they just make *me* so full I can't
    barely stand it.

    And, I must say, that I've ditched all fruit for now as well.

    Fructose hates me.

    I think if I would have hoarked a banana after the potatoes I would have
    been hungry shortly afterwards as well. Even though they're mostly glucose,
    doesn't matter, still make me starving. Barely yellow, super yellow, green -
    didn't matter. STAR-VING an hour later.

    I actually tried the all fruit thing a few years ago and gained weight even
    in a deficit.

    I think boring ass potatoes with just salt are going to be my ticket to
    satiation.

  3. #483
    sbhikes's Avatar
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    Why the banana? This is a potato only diet. Just potatoes. Nothing else.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Heaviest squat: 180 x 2. Heaviest Deadlift: 230 x 2

  4. #484
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    From what I've been reading, I think that the blandness/food reward issue is one of the major reasons this works. If you start adding foods you add variety and your body just doesn't get the same message.

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by NourishedEm View Post
    From what I've been reading, I think that the blandness/food reward issue is one of the major reasons this works. If you start adding foods you add variety and your body just doesn't get the same message.
    Yeah? It's not the whole super low calorie thing? Not to say food reward doesn't matter, but this is just an easy, satiating (for most people) way to restrict calories. Kind of like ketosis's evil twin.
    Last edited by Timthetaco; 10-19-2012 at 06:37 PM.

  6. #486
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    Of course I'm not saying that the calorie deficit isn't important, notice I said that the palatability issue was one of the reasons. But there are too many stories of people who don't achieve weight loss with normal calorie restriction, I'm one of them. I think there's more to it than calorie restriction alone.

    We don't have much data from others yet, but Otzi has kept the weight off every time he's attempted this. For mine, whenever I've attempted massive caloric restriction, I gain all the weight back with interest when returning to normal intake.

  7. #487
    sbhikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NourishedEm View Post
    From what I've been reading, I think that the blandness/food reward issue is one of the major reasons this works. If you start adding foods you add variety and your body just doesn't get the same message.
    I agree that the food reward thing has something to do with it. It's interesting that otzi keeps it off. He did post another thread full of links on why it works. I think last year there was a big food reward thread where people were trying all bland foods to test the whole food reward thing. I don't remember what the outcome was.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Heaviest squat: 180 x 2. Heaviest Deadlift: 230 x 2

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beachspirit View Post
    This is what Otzi posted in the beginning of this thread. "This works in exactly the same way ketogenic diets work. Your body can only use two things for fuel: Fat and Carbs. In ketogenic diets, you are completely carb-starved, so you burn body fat. In the potato diet, you are completely fat-starved, so you burn body fat. Your body doesn't burn protein for energy per se, it uses the amino acids contained in the protein as building blocks for life-processes and rebuilding muscle etc... Potatoes and rice have all the amino acids you need for life.

    the reason this works better than normal calorie restriction with a diet of protein-fat-carbs is that your body will process the simple starch first, then look for other fuel and find only body fat. The simple starch is processed very fast in the gut and not the liver like sugar, protein and some fats. If you have blood sugar issues, this will actually help you. If anyone has a blood glucose meter, do some testing while eating potatoes, my FBG dropped from 100 to 90 and stayed there. After several months of paleo, it crept back up to 103 it is now 90.

    Another reason this works, is that the micro flora in your gut responds very well to simple starch. It responds very well to the easily digested potato and it's signaling is vastly improved. I start getting gassy about day 3 and it goes away by about day 6. If you peel the potatoes this won't happen as badly, this happens because there are undigestable enzymes in the peelings that are dealt with in the large intestine in a gas-producing way."
    I'm not picking on BeachSpirit here, not shooting the messenger, I'm aiming squarely at the information provided in the quote...

    1. the body can oxidize all macronutrients for energy, protein most certainly included. Branched chain amino acids can be directly oxidized, whereas other amino acids undergo gluconeogenesis. It is for this reason that medically supervised ketogenic diets are very tightly controlled for protein. In fact, I believe the models used in determining the appropriate level of protein to include in such a diet assume that protein is slightly more likely to be processed via gluconeogensis than to be incorporated into new proteinaceous tissues. The actual coefficient there is on the order of 58%, I believe. Once converted to glucose, it should go without saying that protein is oxidized as though it were a carbohydrate.
    2. the oxidation of macronutrients is entirely and solely dependent on concentration gradients. Specifically, your body will oxidize whichever macronutrient is most abundant. If you eat predominantly protein, then you will predominantly oxidize protein. The same holds true for fats and carbohydrates. There is no magic in simple carbohydrates with respect to metabolism.
    3. it follows from #2 that if you are driving your metabolism with carbohydrates, you would expect your FBG to be lower precisely because your body is actively oxidizing glucose thereby lowering circulating levels. Conversely, were your body to be oxidizing say, fats, as during a ketogenic diet, you would expect FBG to increase.

      In ketogenic diets, you are completely carb-starved, so you burn body fat. In the potato diet, you are completely fat-starved, so you burn body fat.
    4. the key point there would be "starved", that is, having created a caloric deficit, your body resorts to oxidizing its endogenous energy stores, a.k.a adipose fat tissue, to make up for the energy shortfall. This, of course, is completely independent of the magic of potatoes.


    In the immortal words of Public Enemy ... "Don't Believe The Hype"

    -PK
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I appreciate the well thought out reply. You are right, there is no magic. Just starvation.

    One area we differ in opinion on, is protein being used for fuel. When you ingest starch, it can be used directly for energy production. The starch is converted to glucose with the use of amylase in the saliva and stomach, it rapidly incorporates into the circulatory system prompting an almost immediate insulin response which places the glucose where it needs to be--liver, muscles, organs, and it is used in the krebs cycle with no further modification. Starch can then, be used indefinitely as a primary food source. Protein on the other hand, can't. People become violently ill and may die if fed a diet consisting only of protein.

    To use an amino acid for energy, your liver first removes its nitrogen, as this element is not involved in energy production and incorporates the nitrogen into urea for excretion. The remainder of the amino acid, if it is a glucogenic amino acid, undergoes a process called gluconeogenesis, in which glucose is synthesized from non-glucose molecules. Glucogenic amino acids can convert into an intermediate compound, such as pyruvate, that enters the gluconeogenesis cycle to synthesize glucose your cells can use for fuel.

    If you consume sufficient calories, as well as more dietary protein than your body requires at any given time, you can use the excess protein as energy in an indirect way. In this case, once nitrogen is removed, ketogenic amino acids convert to fatty acid precursors, which your cells use to manufacture fatty acids that move to your adipose tissue for long-term storage. You can then call on the fat stores to provide fuel for your cells when dietary calories are in short supply.

    Not that this makes a hill of beans--or potatoes--but I do think there is merit to a prolonged feeding on starch for very rapid fat-loss. This is way more effective, in the short term, than IF'ing, ketosis, or other starvation diets that include fat and protein.

    Fat can also be used directly, but not ingested fat--only stored fat, probably adding to the success of ketogenic diets, but fructose and protein need complex interactions before being used as fuel.
    It doesn't sound to me like we are really disagreeing, but rather splitting some biochemical hairs.

    Nevertheless, we need to elucidate a mechanism, apart from our impressions or intuitions, as to why prolonged feeding on starch would induce very rapid fat loss. The mechanism is most surely caloric deficit. That and nothing else.

    If we are somehow attributing more "fatburniness (TM)" to starches, then we need to outline how starches metabolize differently than other nutrients.

    -PK
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  10. #490
    Beachspirit's Avatar
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    Down 1.4 lbs today! Yeahhhh! I ate three potatoes for lunch, three potatoes for dinner and walked slow for 1 hour. I still love Tatars!

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