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Thread: EAT MOAR TATERS! Huh? page 104

  1. #1031
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    But Otzi, from the above article on Butyrate Jaminet also says this ;
    Sources of Butyrate

    There are two main ways to get butyrate and other short-chain fatty acids. The first is to eat fiber and let your intestinal bacteria do the rest. Whole plant foods such as sweet potatoes, properly prepared whole grains, beans, vegetables, fruit and nuts are good sources of fiber.

    Butyrate also occurs in significant amounts in food. What foods contain butyrate? Hmm, I wonder where the name BUTYR-ate came from? Butter perhaps? Butter is 3-4 percent butyrate, the richest known source. But everyone knows butter is bad for you, right?

    After thinking about it, I've decided that butyrate must have been a principal component of Dr. Weston Price's legendary butter oil. Price used this oil in conjunction with high-vitamin cod liver oil to heal tooth decay and a number of other ailments in his patients. The method he used to produce it would have concentrated fats with a low melting temperature, including butyrate, in addition to vitamin K2*****. Thus, the combination of high-vitamin cod liver oil and butter oil would have provided a potent cocktail of fat-soluble vitamins (A, D3, K2), omega-3 fatty acids and butyrate. It's no wonder it was so effective in his patients.
    Sounds to me like veggies with butter on top would work just fine.

    Also that study he cites was on rats being fed a mix of lard and soy oil. It is talking about counteracting the inflammatory effects of this "high fat diet". It would be more interesting without the soy involved. There would probably a lot less inflammation involved in the first place.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 12-19-2012 at 05:10 PM.

  2. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I almost started a new thread, but wanted to put it here for posterity's sake...

    Paul Jaminet of the Perfect Health Diet has been talking about the Potato Diet. He loves the idea of 'safe starches' and wants us to include up to a pound of starch a day.

    On the "Potato Diet", he specifically mentioned 'Butyrate'. I had never heard that term before and did some digging.

    Butyrate is formed in the large intestine from resistant starch. Butyrate is needed to feed colon (large intestine) cells and the microflora living these. It is known to eliminate inflammation in the colon and the whole body! see: Whole Health Source: Butyric Acid: an Ancient Controller of Metabolism, Inflammation and Stress Resistance

    Well, my point is, the normal paleo template and even the Primal Blueprint has taken most reistant starches out of the equation, possibly leaving us with a missing element to out health. Resistant starch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Resistant Starches are classified according to type:

    RS1 Physically inaccessible or digestible resistant starch, such as that found in seeds or legumes and unprocessed whole grains

    RS2 Resistant starch that occurs in its natural granular form, such as uncooked potato, green banana flour and high amylose corn

    RS3 Resistant starch that is formed when starch-containing foods are cooked and cooled such as in legumes,[2] bread, cornflakes and cooked-and-chilled potatoes, pasta salad or sushi rice. The process of cooking out the starch and cooling it is called retrogradation.

    RS4 Starches that have been chemically modified to resist digestion. This type of resistant starches can have a wide variety of structures and are not found in nature.

    See any patterns here? When we quit eating bread, grains, and legumes, we are removing a huge source of resistant starch! Notice anything on the list that we keep talking about? Cold potatoes!

    Apparently one of the best ways to get resistant starch into the gut is to eat cooked and chilled potatoes (or rice). The chilling changes the starch (retrogradation) and turns it into a type of resistant starch that can travel through your digestive system and end up in the colon where it is converted to butyrate, a short-chain fatty acid. How cool is that?!
    Butyrate / butyric acid actually gets its name from the substance from which it was first isolated ... butter. Much like oleic acid got its name from olive oil and stearic acid from beef ( steers ) ... presumably beefic acid sounded a bit too cartoonish.

    If it's butyric acid that you want, then I suggest bypassing the intermediate and unnecessary bacterial synthesis stage and eat it directly in all of its buttery splendour. Further, the gut microbiota here is a bit of a red herring, because although they do break down resistant starch, what they do with it is produce fatty acids like butyrate which the host then absorbs.

    So what we have here is a symbiotic relationship where the gut microbiota flourish because you are providing an environment where their preferred nutritional substrate, resistant starch, is plentiful, and they, in turn, provide you with a fatty acid. That's fine, as far as it goes, but you would need to provide an argument as to why having a large population of bacteria in your gut that subsist on resistant starches is in and of itself a good thing. Note that this is different from arguing that butyric acid is in and of itself a good thing.

    Getting back to butyric acid, in the Perfect Health Diet, the Jaminets argue that in nature, all diets are high fat diets basically due to this ability of gut microbita to synthesize fatty acids from resistant starches. So, a strictly vegetarian diet of the sort eaten by gorillas, for example, is a high fat diet, contrary to what the average person would assume. Of course, gorillas are specifically adapted for this by having a very large hind gut to host the relatively massive amounts of bacteria needed to ferment these resistant starches into fats.

    If you were, by some genetic quirk, equipped with a large hindgut for bacterial fatty acid fermentation, you would certainly know it due to the massively protruding belly that you would have even in the face of ridiculously low body fat percentages ... think bodybuilders with paper thin skin and massive guts for a visual. This lucky fellow might just be a hindgut fermenter:



    Further, eating resistant starch in order to yield fatty acids is a grossly inefficient way to extract energy which is why gorillas spend an inordinately large proportion of their days eating ... if memory serves it is on the order of 5 hours a day or so.

    Bottom line, eat moar butter if moar butyric acid is what you want.

    -PK
    Last edited by pklopp; 12-20-2012 at 08:26 AM.
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    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  3. #1033
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    Thanks PK. I just tried to say the exact same thing on the other thread he has going on this topic about Resistant Starch but you said it more eloquently.

  4. #1034
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    Interesting pklopp, thanks.

    Disturbing pic though, that guy must be very frustrated with his efforts.

  5. #1035
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    Hate to bump such a long and dormant thread, but this is what brought me to this forum so it is what it is. Ive spent the last 3 days or so reading this thread and figured it coudlnt hurt to give this a try.

    Is anyone else still doing this, or at least falling back on it from time to time?

    One question I have is just how strict you have to be on the no fat. For example for like a tsp of olive oil (or was it tbsp?) there was 9g of fat, so I get that butter/margerine/oil is bad and a little self defeating on the no/low fat of all potatoes. What about smaller amounts? 1 or 2 g of fat from coffee creamer, or from a 2 second spray of PAM or something similar. NO fat sour cream (in really really small doses), or no fat greek yogurt?

    I realize the point is to avoid these things as much as possible, but how harmful is adding just a tiny bit of items like this to improve palatability?

    I love potatoes so I thought this would be a piece of cake for me but after 1 day, let me tell you It has been a challenge. Vinegar, hot sauce both saved this for me.

  6. #1036
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    The more you can stay away from extras, the better off you will be. However a number of ppl still added extras and still had some success

    This is from Hyperlipid:
    The theory why people are calling this a "diet hack" isn't because of calories. That would just be normal dieting. The reason why potatoes are the chosen food is because they're basically zero fat and come with high quality protein, something very rare in a vegetarian protein source, and a lot of nutrients. The theory is because your body needs fat to manufacture insulin, if you are eating ZERO fat, it has to pull fat out of storage to manufacture insulin.Because white potatoes are so highly insulogenic and create such a massive, high GI response, it needs A LOT of insulin - which requires a significant portion of fat. Since you aren't eating fat along with it, it is forced to go to adipose tissue as a source - and needs quite a bit - to make all that insulin.

    So when you start combining potatoes with outside sources of protein and fiber - like egg whites, fish or vegetables - you are destroying the"hack." You are greatly reducing the insulin spike you're supposed to get, which lessens the immediate fat need from your fat cells to manufacture insulin. The whole point is because potatoes are so massively insulinogenic. If you add stuff, it doesn't work. It has to be all potatoes.

    You could surely do it with white rice too, but it's not recommended because there's virtually no protein (certainly no high quality protein) and far less nutrients. Potatoes were chosen because of the very high quality protein, the nutrient density, the high glycemix index and the fact that someone can survive a very long time eating simply potatoes - it is nearly a complete food - you will become ill much faster eating just white rice than eating just white potatoes.
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  7. #1037
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    Yeah, the point of it is NOT to add anything to *make* them more
    palatable, because if you are truly HUNGRY, you will eat the damn potatoes
    plain!

    It's part of the satiating mechanism.

    Boring food = not so hungry, but not starving to death is also the coolness
    of the potato as well because even though I didn't want anymore potatoes,
    I wasn't HUNGRY for *ANYTHING* else.

    Seriously.

    Julie

  8. #1038
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    Quote Originally Posted by InSearchOfAbs View Post
    Yeah, the point of it is NOT to add anything to *make* them more
    palatable, because if you are truly HUNGRY, you will eat the damn potatoes
    plain!

    It's part of the satiating mechanism.

    Boring food = not so hungry, but not starving to death is also the coolness
    of the potato as well because even though I didn't want anymore potatoes,
    I wasn't HUNGRY for *ANYTHING* else.

    Seriously.

    Julie
    I get what you are saying. Wanting to improve the flavour only because Im not sure I have what it takes to stick with this for weeks. It was only 1 day and I was craving sticking just about anything but a potato in my mouth. In fact forget the potatoes, I was just really hoping I could get away with a small amount of cream in my coffee lol.

    Thanks for the answers though!

  9. #1039
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    The other day I was at dinner with some friends and they all stopped eating with a few bites left, citing fullness, but then everybody did a switcheroo and was able to finish somebody else's plate.

    So someone said eating is like Tetris, it's as if you have different shaped holes in your stomach and if you get the right combo of pieces you can clear space and get hungry all over again. I thought that was cute.

  10. #1040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xexist View Post
    I get what you are saying. Wanting to improve the flavour only because Im not sure I have what it takes to stick with this for weeks. It was only 1 day and I was craving sticking just about anything but a potato in my mouth. In fact forget the potatoes, I was just really hoping I could get away with a small amount of cream in my coffee lol.

    Thanks for the answers though!
    Ohhh IIIIII see.

    See, I wasn't craving anything else at all. Blech!

    In addition to the potatoes, I did NOT stop my 15g of heavy
    cream and 100g of whole milk in my coffee in the morning.

    Wild horses couldn't stop me, and the potato hack STILL WORKED.


    SJMC, that IS cute! Ha!

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