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  1. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    Thanks for the English I was just thinking more along the lines of just a little extra something to do throughout the day. Like parking at the end of the parking lot sort of thing.



    Good job!
    thanks!

    Stairs are a good idea..enjoy that, lol!

  2. #1022
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklopp View Post
    While all exercise will oxidize glucose to some extent, high intensity is defined by the production of lactate when you overwhelm the oxidative capacity of the muscles and instead of generating further energy from pyruvate ( the end product of glycolysis ) the excess pyruvate is converted to lactate which is shunted to the liver for gluconeogenesis.

    So, if you don't feel the burn ... well, you're not really at high intensity.

    -PK
    The lactate is responsible for the burn isn't it? Or is that an urban myth?

  3. #1023
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    I'm all done.

    11 days of the potato diet (and one back to primal eating) and I'm down 4.2kg (9lb3oz). My tastebuds feel better adjusted to avoiding the sweet crap that I was falling for again, and I'm enjoying savouring my meat and veggies again. Strong black coffee tastes goooooooood again, not bitter.

    I wish I'd taken more measurements. I thought of waist etc after I'd already lost a couple of pounds. d'oh.

    I wrote up the experience at:

    https://www.evernote.com/pub/wrigleyj/potatodiet

  4. #1024
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    4.2 kg in 11 days is ... wow

  5. #1025
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danielfire View Post
    4.2 kg in 11 days is ... wow
    It's a bit bonkers. I've never lost weight that fast, even when on a calorie-controlled high fibre diet. I'm kicking myself that I didn't take better measurements than just weight. From before/after photos (just updated in Evernote), seem to have lost at least some of it around the middle. Something approximating abs are starting to show a little.

    Anyhow, now I'm back on the wagon and can get back on track with my powerlifting and running with plenty of protein to make up for anything lost.

  6. #1026
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    double wow!!
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

  7. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danielfire View Post
    The lactate is responsible for the burn isn't it? Or is that an urban myth?
    Short answer : Yup, myth based on misunderstanding of the biochemistry.

    Medium answer : Lactate is actually a buffer that helps to alleviate the burn, in fact. However, as it is always associated with the burn, it becomes an innocent bystander that is guilty solely by association.

    Long Answer :



    Glucose within cells is broken down via a sequence of 10 chemical reactions (glycolysis) that ultimately produces two pyruvate molecules. The reasons that a cell would want to do this are twofold : first, the production of each pyruvate molecule yields one ATP molecule ( the energy currency of the cell ), and second, this process is extremely rapid, so even though you don't get much net energy out of it, your energy production engine, though short on horsepower, has a really high rev limit.

    Pyruvate is in itself a valuable end product because it can be further processed in the mitochondria via the TCA cycle, where each pyruvate generates an additional ATP molecule. Other compounds are produced as well via the TCA cycle, including 4 NADH molecules and one FADH2. These last two compounds are very important because they feed the electron transport chain in mitochondria (ETC).

    For each NADH molecule, three protons are generated via the ETC. The final electron acceptor in this chain is oxygen. For each proton, the mitochondrion membrane proteins produces one ATP molecule. So, for every NADH molecule that we manage to pump through the ETC, we're going to get 3 ATP molecules. Since each pyruvate yields 4 NADH, we get 12 ATP per pyruvate, and since each glucose molecule generates 2 pyruvate molecules, we walk away from the ETC with 24 ATP molecules! Not bad for a day's work.

    Each FADH2 gets us 2 protons, and therefore 2 ATP molecules per pyruvate molecule. Net, net then, each glucose gets us 4 additional ATP molecules from FADH2 processing via the ETC.

    Totting up, if you've been keeping track, per glucose molecule we get 2 ATP from glycolysis, 2 ATP from the TCA cycle, and 28 ATP from the ETC. That's 30 ATP from the mitochondria, and 2 ATP from glycolysis, which kicked off the entire process in the first place.

    While there is an awful lot of energy derived from the ETC, there are drawbacks ... one, you must have available oxygen to accept the final electrons, and two, this process is much slower than glycolysis.

    So what happens in cases where there is insufficient oxygen to handle the electrons being generated via the ETC?

    Well, things start to look a bit like this (at about 4:40):



    The ATP production line gets overwhelmed, and instead of producing ATP and water, as is normally the case, it short circuits in an attempt to get faster, and produces much less ATP, and instead of water, you get reactive oxygen species like superoxide or hydrogen peroxide. The good thing about these is that they accept the electrons and quickly react with whatever is around them, thereby releasing the oxygen again to go back to the ETC. The drawback, of course, is also precisely that they react with whatever is around them, causing damage in the process and giving you that tell tale burn.

    Meanwhile, as the production line gets overwhelmed, pyruvate from glycolysis starts to build up. As the concentration of intra-cellular pyruvate start to increase due to its inability to enter the mitochondria for further processing, an alternative pathway starts to get invoked which converts the pyruvate into lactate. This helps to buffer the reactive oxygen species that are generated by the mitochondria, as well as being shunted to the liver for the regeneration of glucose.

    The really interesting thing about this is that once you start feeling the burn, your muscle cells are grossly inefficient in terms of glucose utilization, yielding about 2 ATP molecules per glucose molecule instead of the usual 32 ATP molecules. Or in other words, you now require roughly 10 times the glucose to maintain your activity level / energy output ... you are crushing glucose levels.

    If you do this repeatedly, your metabolism has no choice but to adapt or die, so you will adapt, and one of the adaptations will be that your cells will upregulate various oxygen transport proteins, making those cells that adapt in this way much better at sucking all the available oxygen from your blood stream!

    -PK
    Last edited by pklopp; 12-06-2012 at 12:25 PM.
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  8. #1028
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  9. #1029
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    Quote Originally Posted by pklopp View Post
    Short answer : Yup, myth based on misunderstanding of the biochemistry.

    Medium answer : Lactate is actually a buffer that helps to alleviate the burn, in fact. However, as it is always associated with the burn, it becomes an innocent bystander that is guilty solely by association.

    Long Answer :



    Glucose within cells is broken down via a sequence of 10 chemical reactions (glycolysis) that ultimately produces two pyruvate molecules. The reasons that a cell would want to do this are twofold : first, the production of each pyruvate molecule yields one ATP molecule ( the energy currency of the cell ), and second, this process is extremely rapid, so even though you don't get much net energy out of it, your energy production engine, though short on horsepower, has a really high rev limit.

    Pyruvate is in itself a valuable end product because it can be further processed in the mitochondria via the TCA cycle, where each pyruvate generates an additional ATP molecule. Other compounds are produced as well via the TCA cycle, including 4 NADH molecules and one FADH2. These last two compounds are very important because they feed the electron transport chain in mitochondria (ETC).

    For each NADH molecule, three protons are generated via the ETC. The final electron acceptor in this chain is oxygen. For each proton, the mitochondrion membrane proteins produces one ATP molecule. So, for every NADH molecule that we manage to pump through the ETC, we're going to get 3 ATP molecules. Since each pyruvate yields 4 NADH, we get 12 ATP per pyruvate, and since each glucose molecule generates 2 pyruvate molecules, we walk away from the ETC with 24 ATP molecules! Not bad for a day's work.

    Each FADH2 gets us 2 protons, and therefore 2 ATP molecules per pyruvate molecule. Net, net then, each glucose gets us 4 additional ATP molecules from FADH2 processing via the ETC.

    Totting up, if you've been keeping track, per glucose molecule we get 2 ATP from glycolysis, 2 ATP from the TCA cycle, and 28 ATP from the ETC. That's 30 ATP from the mitochondria, and 2 ATP from glycolysis, which kicked off the entire process in the first place.

    While there is an awful lot of energy derived from the ETC, there are drawbacks ... one, you must have available oxygen to accept the final electrons, and two, this process is much slower than glycolysis.

    So what happens in cases where there is insufficient oxygen to handle the electrons being generated via the ETC?

    Well, things start to look a bit like this (at about 4:40):



    The ATP production line gets overwhelmed, and instead of producing ATP and water, as is normally the case, it short circuits in an attempt to get faster, and produces much less ATP, and instead of water, you get reactive oxygen species like superoxide or hydrogen peroxide. The good thing about these is that they accept the electrons and quickly react with whatever is around them, thereby releasing the oxygen again to go back to the ETC. The drawback, of course, is also precisely that they react with whatever is around them, causing damage in the process and giving you that tell tale burn.

    Meanwhile, as the production line gets overwhelmed, pyruvate from glycolysis starts to build up. As the concentration of intra-cellular pyruvate start to increase due to its inability to enter the mitochondria for further processing, an alternative pathway starts to get invoked which converts the pyruvate into lactate. This helps to buffer the reactive oxygen species that are generated by the mitochondria, as well as being shunted to the liver for the regeneration of glucose.

    The really interesting thing about this is that once you start feeling the burn, your muscle cells are grossly inefficient in terms of glucose utilization, yielding about 2 ATP molecules per glucose molecule instead of the usual 32 ATP molecules. Or in other words, you now require roughly 10 times the glucose to maintain your activity level / energy output ... you are crushing glucose levels.

    If you do this repeatedly, your metabolism has no choice but to adapt or die, so you will adapt, and one of the adaptations will be that your cells will upregulate various oxygen transport proteins, making those cells that adapt in this way much better at sucking all the available oxygen from your blood stream!

    -PK
    Thanks bro, that makes sense. Appreciate the time you spent to explain it.

  10. #1030
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    I almost started a new thread, but wanted to put it here for posterity's sake...

    Paul Jaminet of the Perfect Health Diet has been talking about the Potato Diet. He loves the idea of 'safe starches' and wants us to include up to a pound of starch a day.

    On the "Potato Diet", he specifically mentioned 'Butyrate'. I had never heard that term before and did some digging.

    Butyrate is formed in the large intestine from resistant starch. Butyrate is needed to feed colon (large intestine) cells and the microflora living these. It is known to eliminate inflammation in the colon and the whole body! see: Whole Health Source: Butyric Acid: an Ancient Controller of Metabolism, Inflammation and Stress Resistance

    Well, my point is, the normal paleo template and even the Primal Blueprint has taken most reistant starches out of the equation, possibly leaving us with a missing element to out health. Resistant starch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Resistant Starches are classified according to type:

    RS1 Physically inaccessible or digestible resistant starch, such as that found in seeds or legumes and unprocessed whole grains

    RS2 Resistant starch that occurs in its natural granular form, such as uncooked potato, green banana flour and high amylose corn

    RS3 Resistant starch that is formed when starch-containing foods are cooked and cooled such as in legumes,[2] bread, cornflakes and cooked-and-chilled potatoes, pasta salad or sushi rice. The process of cooking out the starch and cooling it is called retrogradation.

    RS4 Starches that have been chemically modified to resist digestion. This type of resistant starches can have a wide variety of structures and are not found in nature.

    See any patterns here? When we quit eating bread, grains, and legumes, we are removing a huge source of resistant starch! Notice anything on the list that we keep talking about? Cold potatoes!

    Apparently one of the best ways to get resistant starch into the gut is to eat cooked and chilled potatoes (or rice). The chilling changes the starch (retrogradation) and turns it into a type of resistant starch that can travel through your digestive system and end up in the colon where it is converted to butyrate, a short-chain fatty acid. How cool is that?!

    Now, many may argue that butyrate, or butyric acid is found in butter, but this is not the same as the butyrate formed by the gut from digesting resistant starch...eaten butyric acid gets digested early on--the good stuff is produced and used in the colon.
    Last edited by otzi; 12-20-2012 at 08:58 AM.

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