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Thread: Well, I botched that one... page 2

  1. #11
    primalrob's Avatar
    primalrob is offline Senior Member
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    it's pretty tough to change people's minds, especially when you're up against years of believing things a certain way. even if you show them the science, you still have to deal with some degree of confirmation bias.

    i give people a little intro, point them in what direction they can go to learn on their own, and hope they convert. one thing i find helpful, is not to bring up that grains are bad, but that gluten/lectins/etc. are bad and, aside from causing leaky gut/inflammation/etc., they stop your body from absorbing the nutrients you would be getting from those whole foods. it's an odd blend of big picture and small details, but for some reason it's an easier pill to swallow.

  2. #12
    Drumroll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalrob View Post
    it's pretty tough to change people's minds, especially when you're up against years of believing things a certain way. even if you show them the science, you still have to deal with some degree of confirmation bias.

    i give people a little intro, point them in what direction they can go to learn on their own, and hope they convert. one thing i find helpful, is not to bring up that grains are bad, but that gluten/lectins/etc. are bad and, aside from causing leaky gut/inflammation/etc., they stop your body from absorbing the nutrients you would be getting from those whole foods. it's an odd blend of big picture and small details, but for some reason it's an easier pill to swallow.
    Hmmm... And then you drop the bomb that these bad things come from their precious grains.

  3. #13
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    TARNIP is offline Senior Member
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    Grains are also an addiction IMO, people are not only afraid of giving them up, but they honestly don't want to. They will come up with any excuse possible to justify the need to eat them. Grains are cheap, quick, easy and convenient, all things people these days need and want. There is nothing more you could have done. When people's health begins to fail hopefully they will do the research and figure these things out for themselves. Trust me, I was one one of those people :-) The shit needed to hit the fan for me before I started to listen too......

  4. #14
    SarahW's Avatar
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    Start by pointing out that 99% of bread sold in the US, even (especially) the "healthy whole-grains" breads, have boatloads of sugar in them.

    I find this is the easiest approach for my random European in-laws. Their mind just boggles at the idea of sugar in bread.

    I had read about WAPF a few years ago, so the idea that grains are iffy wasn't new when I discovered PB. But yeah, this is going to be the strangest part of this. I mean, it's the whole bottom of the food pyramid! Haven't people been eating grains for forever!!! Having a good wapf-bread recipe hanging around is a good thing to show then, three days of soaking/sprouting/grinding/fermenting for something of dubious nutritional value? It's a PITA best reserved for those massive amounts of free time and patience.

  5. #15
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    LauraSB is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
    I tend to start them out with just little deviations from CW. I talk about einkorn wheat vs dwarf or I suggest whole foods instead of processed by mentioning the sodium content. Start them out with just baby steps and lead them toward primal one crumb at a time...if that makes sense. I had a co-worker mention to me that her weight loss efforts were not fruitful...she ate lots frozen dinners. I suggested she stop eating frozen dinners b/c the sodium was probably causing her to retain water (sodium is so demonized by CW that it was an easy sell) and get her "healthy grains" from rice and quinoa for a week and see how she felt. Guess what...she lost weight. Now she is more open to the idea that grains in general are bad for you and that whole foods are the way to go...but if I had hit her with everything all at once, I'd have lost her.

    So I guess my advice is start off slow with one small thing. And if they dont bite...I would just quit trying to steer them the right way...they arent ready.
    I approach it in a similar way, *especially* with people who are having trouble losing weight. Except I don't really say much about grains being bad for you, only that they are a lot of calories for not much nutrition (as compared to fruits and vegetables) and that they are so easy to over eat. I don't really distinguish between wheat and non-gluten grains either, because as weightloss derailers, they're not that different. For someone struggling to stick to a weight loss program, getting off the grain merry-go-round is a huge advantage. It's also the gateway to a primal life style, but I never frame it that way. I found my own way there and they can too. I do offer primal and paleo websites for recipes that look like "normal" meals, but don't include grain. If they're ready, they'll look around there and think about the rest of the lifestyle without feeling pressured.

    I also never suggest the cold turkey approach. I steadily cut back on grains, starting with where it seemed easiest and still haven't completely given up pizza, but before too long I could feel the evidence in my own body that digesting grain, and especially wheat, made me uncomfortable. It was trial and error on finding how many other foods made it easier to stick to a calorie budget that pushed me further and further from grains. People can't imagine not caring if they never have another cookie or cracker or piece of bread and if you let them think cold turkey is the only way, odds are they won't last until they get to that place. I guess I don't feel obligated to sell primal. I'm satisfied to get them to step off the CW path long enough to look around and see there are other paths that will lead them to really great places.
    50yo, 5'3"
    SW-195
    CW-125, part calorie counting, part transition to primal
    GW- Goals are no longer weight-related

  6. #16
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    I finally showed the video clip of William Davis MD, the Author of "Wheat Belly" that was posted in this forum. She is still skeptical, though the fact that CBS aired a clip of a Dr. talking about the benefits of eliminating wheat from our diet did help. The best I got her to agree to is adding some other grains (barley) to our son's diet...sigh.

    I think that as I lose weight and regain vital health I will be able to speak with more confidence and credibility. She thinks it's a fad and until "trusted authorities" get behind it, she'll remain skeptical.
    Height: 5' 10"
    Starting Weight: 292
    Starting Primal Weight: 275
    Current weight: 230.5
    Goal weight: 172
    Body Fat 30.5

  7. #17
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    You can't spend your life worrying about what people will or won't do. Tell them how it works, point them in the right direction, dare them to try it for 21 days. If they do great, if not it is their loss.

  8. #18
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    It sounds to me like you are right on track. Just be that example for her. I try to give people several references so that it's not just one website giving them information. It's harder to dismiss as a fraud that way. I know it's frustrating. My mother will just flat out say that my way of eating is too much of a pain. I told her I would come and cook for her. Her response "You know your father isn't going to eat like that." Sigh..my father's health is so bad he can't even stay by himself anymore. Don't give up with her.
    You know all those things you wanted to do: You should go do them.

    Age 48
    height 5'3
    SW 215 lbs
    CW 180 lbs (whole foods/primal eating)
    LW 172 lbs
    GW 125ish lbs

  9. #19
    Graycat's Avatar
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    Rule #1 of Primal.........you don't talk about Primal.....sigh. You tried to do something really good for someone (virtual stranger). Something that could have impacted their entire life for the better and they reacted like that. You can lead a horse to the water, but you can't force it to drink. Their [huge] loss.

    Personally, I'm all about talking about Primal and trying to convert only people that are very close to me. Anyone else's health and diet, I honestly I could care less about.

  10. #20
    magnolia1973's Avatar
    magnolia1973 is offline Senior Member
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    For whatever reason, when you are grain and sugar addict, it's near impossible to accept that those two things are why you are fat. I bet that woman eats next to no fat, gave up yummy meat, full fat dairy. It's like you just won't admit it and for me, it was full on fear of life without my bread and sweets. It has nothing to do with "well, not eating grains will make me sick", nothing to do with "the establishment says eat whole grains" and everything to do of a fear of life without cupcakes. Think about it- she probably blindly eats WW chemical foods.

    Honestly, it's an addiction like anything else. Once you get past it, you don't want it. I just did Whole 30- no sugar, no grains, no dairy. I missed bacon (cured with sugar). My "reward"breakfast was primal pancakes and bacon. I missed bacon and was sick of eggs for breakfast, but at no point did I want pizza, cupcakes etc. Once you get off the wheat, you don't want it, but you don't believe it until you get off of it.

    So.... basically, you are like an alcohol addict, only everyone tells you "grains are healthy". So you have NO CLUE that you are eating a food that makes you into a glutton. It makes me very sad and angry that for the last 37 years I had to have a fat body because I ate something that basically made me gorge myself cyclically..... and that the actual solution was about 2 weeks of cravings and some limited discomfort.

    I see it all the damn time. Even skinny people- work with a woman who has horrible pain and digestive issues. Eats clean as a whistle and won't give up grains, because while she buys into organic, grass fed, whole foods,she won't even give giving up grains a shot.

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