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Thread: Conflicting perspectives on the Paleo Era diet page 2

  1. #11
    Ollie's Avatar
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    I think a "35% fat, 35% carbohydrate, and 30% protein range" is still very good as long as the 35% coming carbs are good carbs.

  2. #12
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    I am going for really LOW carb at present, but this still enables me to have 2+ big cups of cauli, or brocolli, or spinach and the like each day - so I am thinking I am getting plenty of fiber with this lot !!!!!!
    "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KathyH View Post
    "seems that", "on average", "46 out of 229 studied", blah blah blah, how is that post explaining anything? And from that you conclude that we acclimated to be meat heavy. Why not just say that we don't know. Bottom line, how is that anything other than anecdotal evidence?
    The study comes from Ethnographic Atlas by Dr. George P. Murdock...if you take issue with the data why don't you be more specific as to where it is incorrect based on your knowledge of the work that has been done? In the process maybe you can even come to some of your own conclusions. Are you upset that you have nothing to contribute, or that in the end nothing is absolutely certain? I thought that we all (everyone competent enough to discuss things logically that is) agreed that we were working within a framework of theories rather than set universal laws.

    Oh, and since the OP brought up Cordains ratios it should be noted that he got said ratios by studying this very Atlas.....so at least the information is relevant to the discussion at hand. The actual debate has been that Cordain actually under represents fat in his computations of hunted animals thus skewing his ratios higher in protein and lower in fat. Plus since small game is included under "gathered" vegetation maybe also overrepresented in the overall analysis.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 09-30-2012 at 01:53 PM.

  4. #14
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    Exactly what the ratios are we may never know. It is safe to say early man would have eaten animal flesh in the form of game, fish and fowl from hunting or even scavenging. It is also safe to say early man would have eaten in season, fruits, berries, vegetables, tubers, nuts and any other ready to pick and foods.
    Milk is always an issue it is part of a herder culture for the most part, but has probably been in the food chain longer than mass consumption of grains. Even pre-herding if they killed a lactating animal, at least part of it would be milk rich and I can't seem them ignoring it. I have also heard those that are lactose intolerant can often tolerate raw milk so there is a lot going on there.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyeofround View Post
    i think it's important to keep perspective on two big issues.

    1) who are your ancestors? Depending on where these people lived, your ancestral diets would be different. Moreover, how pure is your ancestry? For a lot of us living in north america and formerly colonized countries, our heritage is quite mixed, even if you are not multiracial. So the diets of your ancestors are likely to be different, as well. Your ancestors from the arctic circle likely consumed lots and lots of meat/fish and very little fiber. Your ancestors from the tropics likely consumed large amounts of plant matter, including lots of vegetable rather than animal fats, and had much more sugar and carbohydrates in their diets.

    2) what's really important is getting rid of the processed foods that came into our diet in the 20th century and onwards, everything else is just minutiae
    amen!

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    The study comes from Ethnographic Atlas by Dr. George P. Murdock...if you take issue with the data why don't you be more specific as to where it is incorrect based on your knowledge of the work that has been done? In the process maybe you can even come to some of your own conclusions. Are you upset that you have nothing to contribute, or that in the end nothing is absolutely certain? I thought that we all (everyone competent enough to discuss things logically that is) agreed that we were working within a framework of theories rather than set universal laws.

    Oh, and since the OP brought up Cordains ratios it should be noted that he got said ratios by studying this very Atlas.....so at least the information is relevant to the discussion at hand. The actual debate has been that Cordain actually under represents fat in his computations of hunted animals thus skewing his ratios higher in protein and lower in fat. Plus since small game is included under "gathered" vegetation maybe also overrepresented in the overall analysis.
    In your post you stated your own analysis and ratios. You didn't quote any Atlas.
    Last edited by KathyH; 09-30-2012 at 01:58 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirlot View Post
    Exactly what the ratios are we may never know. It is safe to say early man would have eaten animal flesh in the form of game, fish and fowl from hunting or even scavenging. It is also safe to say early man would have eaten in season, fruits, berries, vegetables, tubers, nuts and any other ready to pick and foods.
    Milk is always an issue it is part of a herder culture for the most part, but has probably been in the food chain longer than mass consumption of grains. Even pre-herding if they killed a lactating animal, at least part of it would be milk rich and I can't seem them ignoring it. I have also heard those that are lactose intolerant can often tolerate raw milk so there is a lot going on there.
    So you say. It's just your assumption.
    I am curious what seasons you are talking about. Are you referring to the temperate climate or tropics?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by KathyH View Post
    "seems that", "on average", "46 out of 229 studied", blah blah blah, how is that post explaining anything? And from that you conclude that we acclimated to be meat heavy. Why not just say that we don't know. Bottom line, how is that anything other than anecdotal evidence?
    Erm, that post seems to be entirely factual. Neckhammer is not misleading you by overstating his assumptions and presenting his opinions as facts.

    Perhaps you would prefer to read posts where opinions are asserted as facts (hi Choco! ). Would that provide the concrete evidence you are looking for?
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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  9. #19
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    I no longer worry about the studies so much. My own staggeringly good health lets me know I'm doing the right thing. I take into account that I am carbohydrate intolerant and impaired, that I'm female and old, and that I like endurance exercise more than grunting under barbells in the gym.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 175 x 3. Current Deadlift: 225 x 3

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Erm, that post seems to be entirely factual. Neckhammer is not misleading you by overstating his assumptions and presenting his opinions as facts.

    Perhaps you would prefer to read posts where opinions are asserted as facts (hi Choco! ). Would that provide the concrete evidence you are looking for?
    He didn't say where he was deriving the data from in his post.

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