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Thread: So, what now? Do we need another 10,000 years? page

  1. #1
    Nady's Avatar
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    So, what now? Do we need another 10,000 years?

    The whole Primal/Paleo movement is based on the idea that human health/vitality declined with the move to agriculture and the use of grains as a staple food. This change from hunter/gatherer to farmer has been dated at about 10,000 years ago. It takes about 10,000 years to adapt~ we were just 'getting there'. The last several generations showed increases in height, bone size~ we were finally regaining what humans lost when they started eating grains.

    And then they changed the grains.

    Now I read
    from Investing in America's Health - Trust for America's Health

    And, today's children are in danger of becoming the first generation in American history to live shorter, less healthy lives than their parents.
    And people wonder why some of us feel (today's) grains are killing us.

  2. #2
    Omni's Avatar
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    Maybe try 100,000 or 1,000,000 to really tune in to grains and oxidised Omega 6 oils

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    Actually the height we have now is more because we aren't neglecting other foods in favour of grains. In the middle ages meat was very much a rarity in the diets of the lower classes and the growth in average height can be correlated with meat consumption.
    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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    Lukey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nady View Post
    The whole Primal/Paleo movement is based on the idea that human health/vitality declined with the move to agriculture and the use of grains as a staple food. This change from hunter/gatherer to farmer has been dated at about 10,000 years ago. It takes about 10,000 years to adapt~ we were just 'getting there'. The last several generations showed increases in height, bone size~ we were finally regaining what humans lost when they started eating grains.

    And then they changed the grains.

    Now I read

    And people wonder why some of us feel (today's) grains are killing us.
    Can i ask where you get this figure that it takes 10,000 years to adapt? From what i read it takes a lot, lot longer
    Last edited by Lukey; 09-27-2012 at 06:20 AM.

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    We won't adapt at all. Adaptation implies that the less adapted dies and does not reproduce and the slightly more adapted goes on (with less and less efforts through the generations).

    Nowadays everybody reproduces, even sterile couples. Damn, if you are sterile it means Nature doesn't want you to reproduce.

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    Lukey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by primal_alex View Post
    We won't adapt at all. Adaptation implies that the less adapted dies and does not reproduce and the slightly more adapted goes on (with less and less efforts through the generations).

    Nowadays everybody reproduces, even sterile couples. Damn, if you are sterile it means Nature doesn't want you to reproduce.
    Exactly, that is the most mis-understood thing about evolution. People think we adapt to certain things out of will, but it's just that the less adapted to the problem die out, and the more adapted survive. it takes hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by primal_alex View Post
    We won't adapt at all. Adaptation implies that the less adapted dies and does not reproduce and the slightly more adapted goes on (with less and less efforts through the generations).

    Nowadays everybody reproduces, even sterile couples. Damn, if you are sterile it means Nature doesn't want you to reproduce.
    Yup, this really... you can't adapt or evolve if pretty much everyone can reach reproductive age, and manage to have offspring, regardless of how poorly they're being affected by their diet. If eating a conventional diet was so bad that few people survived to adulthood on it, there would certainly be some evolution occurring though .

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    Nady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
    Can i ask where you get this figure that it takes 10,000 years to adapt? From what i read it takes a lot, lot longer
    Don't have a link right now, just something I've read numerous times in the last decade ~ mostly from doing research on grains because of the issues they cause for me. Basically, what I've found is articles that state it takes 10,000 to 100,000 years for an organism to adapt, 10,000 years being the shortest period of time. I just used the 10,000 number because it seems to correlate with the evidence of the beginnings of agriculture and decrease in the height/health of early humans.

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    Lukey's Avatar
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    ah ok. But we can never adapt to grains anymore than we have. The humans who couldn't eat grains died out 10,000 years ago while the ones who could (our ancestors) survived. Thats how we "adapted" to eating them. (meaning humans can never really adapt, if you can't tolerate the problem you die, and if you can you survive, and breed, bringing forward your genes which can tolerate the problem)

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