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    sandokan2112's Avatar
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    high fat/low carb meals and low fat/high carb meals

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    Hey everyone, im looking to mix things up in my diet. I am trying to put on a few extra pounds of muscle, so i was going to start incorporating some more carbs.

    I do manual labour and then hit the gym about 3X a week (short intense workout). Now i know its not a good idea to have a large amount of fat and carbs together in a meal, so im planning on splitting up my macros.

    My plan is to have high fat/high protein/low carbs during the day/afternoon e.g eggs,meat,cheese,cream,coconut milk,olive oil etc... And in the evening my meal would be high carb/high protein/low fat.

    I figured my body would be more insulin sensitive when i come home from a hard work day and my muscles would make good use from these carbs.

    My carbs (for dinner) would be in the 100gram range (potatoes and some fruit and veg.) and lean protein fish/lean meats.

    Does this plan sound reasonable in trying to put on a few extra pounds of muscle?
    Any input would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by sandokan2112; 09-26-2012 at 05:42 PM.

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    I don't know your numbers (height, sex, activity, etc) so hard to say how many carbs you should eat, but if you want to put on muscle mass I would say you need more than 100 g. Just to give you an idea, I'm male, 5"11, 145 lbs on a cut and I eat 250 g of carbs post workout (in two meals). If I bulking, like you are, that number would be closer to 400 g. But then on rest days I eat ~50 g carbs.

    I'd split up my macros in different days, rather than just meals. That means eat low fat, high carb on workout days and moderate fat (note: not high fat), low carb on rest days. Check out leangains for more info, but that's the basics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmsantos View Post
    I don't know your numbers (height, sex, activity, etc) so hard to say how many carbs you should eat, but if you want to put on muscle mass I would say you need more than 100 g. Just to give you an idea, I'm male, 5"11, 145 lbs on a cut and I eat 250 g of carbs post workout (in two meals). If I bulking, like you are, that number would be closer to 400 g. But then on rest days I eat ~50 g carbs.

    I'd split up my macros in different days, rather than just meals. That means eat low fat, high carb on workout days and moderate fat (note: not high fat), low carb on rest days. Check out leangains for more info, but that's the basics.
    You don't need anywhere near that amount of carbs. Can i ask why you suggest that? There is no specific requirement for carbohydrate in all human metabolism, let alone just to build muscle. The only need is to refill glycogen, which 100g will do perfectly fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmsantos View Post
    I don't know your numbers (height, sex, activity, etc) so hard to say how many carbs you should eat, but if you want to put on muscle mass I would say you need more than 100 g. Just to give you an idea, I'm male, 5"11, 145 lbs on a cut and I eat 250 g of carbs post workout (in two meals). If I bulking, like you are, that number would be closer to 400 g. But then on rest days I eat ~50 g carbs.

    I'd split up my macros in different days, rather than just meals. That means eat low fat, high carb on workout days and moderate fat (note: not high fat), low carb on rest days. Check out leangains for more info, but that's the basics.
    I'm a male, 5' 10", 150lbs (very little bodyfat)
    It would be difficult for me to split up my carbs e.g. low carb day or high carb day b/c i do manual labour. Even if its not a workout day for me im still burning alot of calories.
    I just find that i get more sustained energy from fat then i do with carbs. So i keep my carbs in the 150 gram range (about 30-50grams during the day/afternoon.. and around 100grams when i get home from work.

    I have been doing ALOT of research on some of the bodybuilders of the 60's and 70's and most of them followed a high fat/high protein/low carb diet. Meat, eggs, cream, raw milk was their staple, and they built some impressive physiques on a low carb diet (they would have only one or two carb feedings a week)

    In my situation im burning alot more calories then the average person, so a carb feeding with protein in the evening may be just what i need.

    My macros are roughly 200g fat/150g protein/150g carbs.

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    That means eat low fat, high carb on workout days and moderate fat

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    That's basically carb backloading. I recommend Jason Ferruggia's Renegade Diet...it's a mix of Leangains IF, paleo eating, and carb backloading. I eat one small fish, poultry, or egg/veggie meal for breakfast, a medium lunch with more protein and vegetables, and a huge dinner of the same but with any starchy carbs for the day. Cycle carbs, have the most on your highest intensity days and try to keep fat around 50G if you are doing a refeed. It's very hard to put on fat and you can do a slow bulk this way, but he talks about how to do a mass bulk too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tailypoe3 View Post
    That's basically carb backloading. I recommend Jason Ferruggia's Renegade Diet...it's a mix of Leangains IF, paleo eating, and carb backloading. I eat one small fish, poultry, or egg/veggie meal for breakfast, a medium lunch with more protein and vegetables, and a huge dinner of the same but with any starchy carbs for the day. Cycle carbs, have the most on your highest intensity days and try to keep fat around 50G if you are doing a refeed. It's very hard to put on fat and you can do a slow bulk this way, but he talks about how to do a mass bulk too.
    Thats interesting, i've never heard the term "carb back loading".
    I guess what i am doing is similar to that. With the exception (from what i just read on it) is that i consume much more fat during the day/afternoon. And post workout i dont load on as many carbs (100gram range)
    I consume roughly 3000 calories a day 200fat/150protein/150carbs. Again, im burning calories all day from manual labour work, so plenty of cream and coconut milk and protein keeps my energy levels up.
    Again these old time bodybuilders (60's/70's era) knew what they were doing, plenty of fat and protein and low carbs (with a couple of carb meals a week)
    There staple was meat/eggs/fish/heavy cream/raw milk. With some veggies and fruit.
    Last edited by sandokan2112; 09-27-2012 at 05:41 AM.

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    I recommend reading part 1 and 2 here: Carb Cycling Made Easy- Part 1 - How to Build Muscle | Strength Training Workouts | Mass Gain Diet

    I also have a physically demanding job, so I keep protein the roughly the same all days and on workout days try to get at least 100G carbs making sure to have some safe starch (white rice/potato) with 50-70G fat, the rest of the time more like 115 or more G fat and 50-100 G carbs mostly veg, NO fructose due to gut problems.

    If you are a hardgainer eating fat is fine, but I would still exercise some moderation during your highest carb meal.
    Traditional body building requires a bulk (lots of eating which leads to muscle AND fat gain inevitably) followed by a cut to reduce the fat again. Renegade Diet style is more of a slow recomp to help keep fat down WHILE gaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tailypoe3 View Post
    I recommend reading part 1 and 2 here: Carb Cycling Made Easy- Part 1 - How to Build Muscle | Strength Training Workouts | Mass Gain Diet

    I also have a physically demanding job, so I keep protein the roughly the same all days and on workout days try to get at least 100G carbs making sure to have some safe starch (white rice/potato) with 50-70G fat, the rest of the time more like 115 or more G fat and 50-100 G carbs mostly veg, NO fructose due to gut problems.

    If you are a hardgainer eating fat is fine, but I would still exercise some moderation during your highest carb meal.
    Traditional body building requires a bulk (lots of eating which leads to muscle AND fat gain inevitably) followed by a cut to reduce the fat again. Renegade Diet style is more of a slow recomp to help keep fat down WHILE gaining.
    Thanx for the input and the link. And yes im always careful (except for cheat meals) not to have too much fat with my evening carb meal (20grams of fat or less)

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