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Thread: Michelle O's new School Lunch Menu: Less Fat, More Grains page 8

  1. #71
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    yes. that's the way it has been for years.
    Maybe so, but I don't like it.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    Really?!

    Good thing Obama is black. That gives the left a perfect opportunity to claim racism. Even your choice of president has to be publicly correct now.
    I may have been over-attuned to it after listening to some of the crazy shit the far right in this country says.
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncephalized View Post
    I may have been over-attuned to it after listening to some of the crazy shit the far right in this country says.
    or some of the crazy shit the media wrongly attributes to the far right...

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    I think to a degree, we aren't looking to create equality, merely warehousing those with no ambition and keeping them out of the way and sight of the more ambitious. We have to do something to meet their basic needs or they will turn to crime. Living in public housing on food stamps is not having success thrust at you. It's keeping you from pissing in the street, robbing people for money and sleeping in the alleys.

    We used to warehouse the poor and it worked OK, until they got mad. Then we deconcentrated it, but not enough and now the unambitious are devaluing the meager investments of people that work that have the least to lose. Instead of inspiring the unambitious, it just is even more demotivating because people that work get to enjoy the same mediocre quality of life as those that don't work.

    I think to me, the greater tragedy is that we have devalued workers so much that they can barely afford basic needs of housing, transportation, medical and food. Paying welfare doesn't piss me off as much as giving tax breaks and shit to employers that can't be bothered to pay a decent enough wage to cover basic needs for an employee. For myself and most of my friends, to be above water at a modest lifestyle now requires a second job. And that's with a degree.

    I think it's by design that they have the working class at odds with the welfare class. It keeps the attention off employers. Shit, if an employer pays so little that an employee qualifies for food stamps or is eligible for medicaid or housing assistance, then we are subsidizing not only a citizen but an ineffective business plan that would not work without government intervention.

    I'm all for bootstraps, but lets remember that business is also benefitting from social welfare programs, maybe to a greater degree than the actual citizens.

    Take Walmart. They pay low enough wages that some people qualify for assistance. Then, they are a prime location to spend food stamps and welfare checks. Add to that, they often get local subsidy- for example, our city rerouted a bus route that serves a neighborhood where 84% of residents receive food stamps.... straight to a WalMart. Given the location of that WalMart, if the food stamp and welfare program was changed- say we just gave poor people a bag of food each week, I bet that WalMart's sales would be off by 50-60%.
    Employers are not the enemy here. Yes, there are greedy, abusive corporations out there. But then you have my local natural foods grocer. He has to pay an annual use tax on some of the equipment in his store. He also has to pay a payroll tax. He has to pay income tax. He has to pay his personal property tax. He has to pay more taxes on the items he buys for his family. He has to eat his losses when products expire without selling. Do you see a pattern here? Doing business is EXPENSIVE. The more costly requirements we heap upon entrepreneurs in this country, the less likely they are to succeed. And that means that all the button-pushers out there won't have anything to do. Massive businesses, ones with hundreds of millions or billions of dollars in assets, will ALWAYS evade whatever you through at them, because they have the resources to do so. You only harm the little guy.
    The "they will turn to crime" excuse just doesn't hold water either. Have you been to a section-8 neighborhood lately? Giving those who won't help themselves free food or housing does not lower crime rates. The state only provides a meager existence for them, just enough to encourage more childbirth. Sound harsh? It is. I don't deny it. But if you commit crimes, you should be locked up, period. For those who are simply down on their luck, let private institutions help them. If none will, why should I be forced to do so? I personally think something is wrong when Pedro can come across the border, start a landscaping business, and get along okay, but an American man is sleeping in the gutter because "there just aint any work". If I became homeless, I would clean peoples rain gutters, rake leaves, hike out into the woods and live off the land, ANYTHING.

  5. #75
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    Also, schools are not supposed to exist for the sake of creating a "good future workforce". They are supposed to exist so that children may grow up to be knowledgeable, thoughtful individuals. They have simply devolved over time into their current, deplorable state.

  6. #76
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    Massive businesses, ones with hundreds of millions or billions of dollars in assets, will ALWAYS evade whatever you through at them, because they have the resources to do so.
    They are part of the problem and have done a BRILLIANT job of manipulating animosity and blame between small business, labor and welfare recipients. I work for a small business and I agree 100% that they make small business arduous and costly. But that is part of the design of big business- put small business out of competition. In my day to day, I frequent a lot of small business. The feed store, local restaurants, use a local officesupply outlet at work, local owned car care etc. I notice low turnover in staff, so assume employees are treated well. It's places like WalMart and McDonalds that are screwing workers.

    And I live in an area of poorly maintained Section 8 houses. If the vouchers dried up tomorrow, those rents would fall and the homes would be even shittier. Our crime is actually pretty stable as the Section 8 has moved in (it's actually gone down), however, the homes themselves are shitty. If they weren't section 8 they'd be full on slums and even more poorly maintained. LOL, maybe they just shoplift from the WalMart.....

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    Maybe they just shoplift from the WalMart.....
    Then return the items.....

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    They are part of the problem and have done a BRILLIANT job of manipulating animosity and blame between small business, labor and welfare recipients. I work for a small business and I agree 100% that they make small business arduous and costly. But that is part of the design of big business- put small business out of competition.
    This is the most critical issue that Americans need to get through their heads. Big Government and Big Business go hand in hand. Big Business can not exist without Big Government subsidies and regulations that support it. The establishment wing of the Republican Party is so awful because they dont' understand that being pro-business and being pro free-market are not one in the same. Companies like Walmart and ADM and even Apple hate the free market. They collude with Government to pass regulations that while slightly onerous to them, are absolutely devastating to small business, and in the end that helps them because it wipes out the competition. John Mackey (the founder of Whole Foods) made an interesting comment once in an interview where he was complaining about the regulations they had to deal with now but added as a footnote the one positive (for his company) was that they don't have to worry about some new up and coming company replicating what they did and competing with them, because under current regulations, building another Whole Foods from the bottom up like he did would simply be impossible. Just look at what has happened to our food supply over the past 20 years. More and more of our food is produced by fewer and fewer people. Family owned farms are becoming a thing of the past. This is a direct result of Big Government and the regulatory state that favors Big Business and Big Government over freedom and competition.

    If you support big Government, you are nothing but a tool for Monsanto and JP Morgan and all the rest. Fascism is great for Big Business. Maybe profits take a slight tick, but you become a profitable monopoly whose existence is ensured for perpetuity. Fascism is great for Big Government too. It is basically socialism that "works". If the economy is controlled by just a handful of huge multinationals, government can easily control the economy through indirect control of those companies. And through the control of these companies, they gain control over the population that has no choice but to be employed by these companies.

    People who hate Big Government need to understand Big Business is not their friend. People who hate Big Business need to understand Big Government is their real enemy.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWBooth View Post
    People who hate Big Government need to understand Big Business is not their friend. People who hate Big Business need to understand Big Government is their real enemy.
    That would be the quote of the day.....
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  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWBooth View Post
    This is the most critical issue that Americans need to get through their heads. Big Government and Big Business go hand in hand. Big Business can not exist without Big Government subsidies and regulations that support it. The establishment wing of the Republican Party is so awful because they dont' understand that being pro-business and being pro free-market are not one in the same. Companies like Walmart and ADM and even Apple hate the free market. They collude with Government to pass regulations that while slightly onerous to them, are absolutely devastating to small business, and in the end that helps them because it wipes out the competition. John Mackey (the founder of Whole Foods) made an interesting comment once in an interview where he was complaining about the regulations they had to deal with now but added as a footnote the one positive (for his company) was that they don't have to worry about some new up and coming company replicating what they did and competing with them, because under current regulations, building another Whole Foods from the bottom up like he did would simply be impossible. Just look at what has happened to our food supply over the past 20 years. More and more of our food is produced by fewer and fewer people. Family owned farms are becoming a thing of the past. This is a direct result of Big Government and the regulatory state that favors Big Business and Big Government over freedom and competition.

    If you support big Government, you are nothing but a tool for Monsanto and JP Morgan and all the rest. Fascism is great for Big Business. Maybe profits take a slight tick, but you become a profitable monopoly whose existence is ensured for perpetuity. Fascism is great for Big Government too. It is basically socialism that "works". If the economy is controlled by just a handful of huge multinationals, government can easily control the economy through indirect control of those companies. And through the control of these companies, they gain control over the population that has no choice but to be employed by these companies.

    People who hate Big Government need to understand Big Business is not their friend. People who hate Big Business need to understand Big Government is their real enemy.
    You're mixing it all up. The bottomline is that power must be checked in all of its forms. If our economies become more localized, the power is with the people.

    Of course, if big government and big business didn't grow during the 70's, 80's, and 90's; our depression/correction would have been made a long time ago. For the longest time we have been becoming less free simply because the nation does not want to receive the licking that it deserves.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 09-28-2012 at 01:28 AM.

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