"Eating for Health, Not Weight " page

[Classic]

Ok, I am a sucker for a good title. I thought this article in the NY Times, "Eating for Health, Not Weight " sounded promising so I started reading it before looking at the authors name (Dean Ornish).
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/op...me&ref=general

Geez, I guess I don't read the Times enough lately. I was certainly expecting something different. This article just slams nutrient dense foods like we eat. They particularly slam the Atkins diet plan.
Maybe I just expect too much but I had thought people were finally coming around. There have been some wonderful articles in the NY Times supporting primal eating the last few years. That is where I first heard about Gary Taubes which lead me to MDA.

Anyone else read this article?

[BennettC]

I read it. still stuck on low fat, grains, fruits, and vegetables. people that eat that diet are literally consciously killing themselves. its sad

[Classic]

Yeah, I am not sure where those studies come from or how they are being interpreted but my CRP went down along with improvements in all my blood work. How can that be if I am eating all these foods that should be killing me? Hmmmmm

[magicmerl]

I think you are being a little harsh here.

Here's the good points I think that the article makes:
1. Processed foods are bad for you
2. There are good carbs and bad carbs, good fats and bad fats (of course, they do get the good and bad fats transposed...)
3. Fruit and vegetables and fish are good for you
4. Many chronic diseases can be cured by a healthy lifestyle
5. High protein diets increase CRP and are stressful on the body long term

Here's the bad points that the article makes:
1. red meat and saturated fat is bad for you (prevailing conventional wisdom)
2. Whole grains, legumes and soy is good for you (whole grains and legumes seem to be neutral, and even soy has a champion on here)
3. Conflates low-carb diet with high-protein diet. Whereas Low Carb needs to be High Fat (it's actually increased protein, not increased fat that is stresseful to the body and increases CRP)

[BennettC]

all carbs cause glycation, or a lot of them at least

[magicmerl]

all carbs cause glycation, or a lot of them at least

This is an oversimplification that is misleading.

There are several steps involved in producing AGEs (advanced glycation end products). The first two are the Schiff base and Amadori product. The processes which produce both are REVERSIBLE. It's only when you continually ingest excessive carbohydrates over time that you form AGEs.

Carbohydrates are not evil. You do not need to eat a zero carb diet to be healthy.

Good grief. I feel like choco.

[Neckhammer]

I wonder about your protein assertion....how high of protein are you talking? Seems that most recognize protein as self limiting at a maximum of 1/3 of your caloric load. And when looking at traditional society some of the heaviest meat eaters (masai and inuit) still only eat approximately 20% of calories from protein. I suppose this is why I always say ....prefer the fatty cuts.

So as to elevated CRP where is the cut off based on what you've read?

[magicmerl]

I wonder about your protein assertion....how high of protein are you talking? Seems that most recognize protein as self limiting at a maximum of 1/3 of your caloric load. And when looking at traditional society some of the heaviest meat eaters (masai and inuit) still only eat approximately 20% of calories from protein. I suppose this is why I always say ....prefer the fatty cuts.

So as to elevated CRP where is the cut off based on what you've read?

Sorry, is this directed at me?

Yes, I was meaning above the 'natural' limit.

[Neckhammer]

Sorry, is this directed at me?

Yes, I was meaning above the 'natural' limit.

Yeah, it was for you. So any amount within the confines of a paleo or whole food diet would likely not reach being designated as "high protein". We are talking more about supplementing excess whey or something then right? Was just checking to make sure I understood what high protein was hinting at.

[magicmerl]

Yeah, it was for you. So any amount within the confines of a paleo or whole food diet would likely not reach being designated as "high protein". We are talking more about supplementing excess whey or something then right? Was just checking to make sure I understood what high protein was hinting at.

I think that its possible to have 'rabbit starvation' eating lean meats within the confines of paleo. If you lift weights and eat nothing but steak then you quite possibly are getting too much protein. It's really eating too much lean protein that is the problem. Fat fat fatty fat is all good.