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Thread: Is there really a nutritional need for fruits and vegetables?

  1. #101
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    I believe that thinking of food in this way is somewhat dangerous. Food is more than just vitamins and minerals. First, it's very possible that scientists still don't have a complete picture of every essential vitamin and mineral, and in what amounts we need them.

    Second, if vitamins and mineral and basic calories were all that were required to thrive, you could argue that someone could eat a diet of pure sugar or pure fat with a multivitamin. We all know that this kind of regimen wouldn't produce optimal health. But as to why, I don't think we have the answers.

    We will probably never fully understand the complex nutrtional interplay that happens when we eat real, whole foods.
    Agreed. Nutritional science is really only in it's infancy, there's new nutritional compounds being discovered all the time. The synergy created by whole foods isn't even close to being replicated by complete enteral nutrition forumulas and I doubt It will be for a very long time. Anti-oxidant supplements also haven't even come close to replicating the benefits found in whole foods.
    Marks advice is a good bet, eating a wide array of different colored fruits and vegetables.
    Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 09-26-2012 at 03:16 AM.

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Beaufot, SC
    what sucks is mostly all studies have been done on man as a carbohydrate eater
    Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
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  3. #103
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Dresden, Maine
    Quote Originally Posted by SarahW View Post
    I think I read somewhere recently that sauerkraut was a more effective cure for scurvy, with the added bonus that the barrels would get better with time on a rocking boat. Nourishing Traditions, maybe? (I've read a lot of books recently, sorry).

    Incidentally, if the rum was truly raw, I think that mixture would ferment over time as well.

    So, yeah, can we please argue about fermented fruits and vegetables next? Thank you.
    Just to dredge up some ancient thread history... rum is a distilled spirit, so it would not cause any fermentation. In fact, as long as it was at least 20-ish percent alcohol content (rum by itself is usually around 40), the solution would be completely sterile, and prevent any further fermentation of the sugars. The fermentation that creates fermented foods like sauerkraut is caused by bacteria that convert sugars to lactic acid, like lactobacillus (yogurt) or leuconostoc (sauerkraut), while the fermentation that creates things like wine and beer is caused by a yeast, saccharomyces, which converts sugars into ethanol.

    Also, to comment on the thread itself, there have been some really great rebuttals to the idea that fruits an vegetables are unnecessary. Just because the Inuit manage to exist in an environment where there are minimal fruits and vegetables, does not mean that we should hold them up as the epitome of human diet. Furthermore, the Inuit actually do consume a wide variety of the plants that do exist, as listed in this handy field guide to edible plants, written by members of the Inuit people- Plants That We Eat: Nauriat Niginaqtaut - From the traditional wisdom of the Inupiat Elders of Northwest Alaska: Anore Jones: 9781602230743: Books

    I think far more telling than the fact that some people thrive in an environment that does not supply huge amounts of plant matter is the fact that cultures that *do* live in an environment with readily available plants eat them regularly, and are tightly bound to them through tradition and ritual (as documented in this incredibly dry and boring text I had to read for an ethnobotany class in school- Ethnobotany: A Reader: Paul E. Minnis: 9780806131801: Books).
    "Itís not about how strong you are, itís how well you can move with that strength."

  4. #104
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    Aug 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by BennettC View Post
    Apparently they aren't "essential" if all these civilizations survived on just meat. I still have my raw milk so I can maintain my calcium though
    Okay, even if that is true (I doubt it)... they did it by eating raw adrenalin glands. If you feel like sourcing and eating some of that - be my guest.

    rum is a distilled spirit, so it would not cause any fermentation.
    For some reason I thought making rum was like making beer - it needs to be "stopped" at some point, otherwise the process would just continue ad infinitum. My knowledge of brewing, and pre-modern brewing, is pretty rudimentary, sorry.


    Incidentally, I was just reading one of Nina Plack's books and she mentions studies that shows that non-heme iron from plants have a very low absorption rate, but if you eat non-heme iron in conjunction with a heme iron source, the absorption rate of non-heme skyrockets. So you should eat your spinach with beef, and you will get much more iron than if you just ate the beef by itself. So it seems the Irish were very wise to eat vegetables as a "condiment" with their meals.

    Given that vegetables are generally low in calories, this may be a good way for people who can't eat many calories in a day (like women, other smaller-bodied people, and etc.) to get all their nutrition without overloading their systems. Just sayin' it's easy for my husband to meet 100+% RDA according to FitDay, but as I only eat half as much food as him I do have to make sure the calories I eat provide enough (absorb-able) nutrition.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    GA & CA
    This is btw MDA(Mark's Daily APPLE!) that more or less, we all ascribe to....

    Read more:
    Apple Pectin Benefits | LIVESTRONG.COM

    Read more:


    May 1, 2011 | By Traci Vandermark

    Pectin is a type of fiber that is found in all plant cell walls and tissues. While all may contain pectin, the amount and concentration of pectin varies among plants. Apples contain a particularly high amount of pectin, according to, and the highly concentrated apple pectin delivers many health benefits. Apple pectin is available in the skin and pulp of fresh apples or as a dietary supplement.

    Supplies Soluble Fiber

    Soluble fiber is fiber that can disperse or spread in water. For example, if you leave oatmeal, a good source of soluble fiber, in water too long, you will see a gel type substance form in the water. Apple pectin is a rich source of soluble fiber, which plays an important role in the prevention and treatment of disease. The American Heart Association reports that adding soluble fiber to your diet will reduce your risk of heart disease and can reduce your bad cholesterol levels more than following a low-fat diet alone can. Soluble fiber works to lower cholesterol by reducing the amount of it that is absorbed in the intestines, according to the Mayo Clinic.

    Protects Against Metabolic Syndrome

    Metabolic syndrome is a term that is given to a group of risk factors that contribute to heart disease, stroke and high blood sugar. Risk factors, listed by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, are high blood pressure, high blood sugar, high triglycerides, high cholesterol levels and a large waist circumference. Researchers at the Complutense University in Madrid, Spain, found that when rats with the equivalent of human metabolic syndrome were fed diets that contained apple pectin, they experienced a reduction in blood sugar levels, total cholesterol levels, triglyceride levels and weight. A reduction in one or all of these factors will contribute to a reduction in high blood pressure as well. The study, published in the May 2008 issue of the "Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry," calls the difference in the pectin groups cholesterol profile "remarkable" and suggests that apple pectin may one day be considered as a treatment for metabolic syndrome.

    Improves Intestinal Environment

    A healthy intestinal tract contains both good and bad bacteria, with the optimal situation being where the good bacteria far outnumber the bad. The job of intestinal bacteria is to help us digest food, absorb nutrients and keep viruses and bad bacteria in check. The March 19, 2010, issue of "Anaerobe" reports a study in which subjects' bacterial content in fecal matter was checked at the beginning of the trial period and then again at the end. The trial involved the subjects eating two apples per day for two weeks. At the end of two weeks, tests showed that the content of bad bacteria in fecal matter had decreased, while the levels of good bacteria had increased. The researchers, from Nippon Veterinary and Life Science University in Tokyo, concluded that increasing apple intake improves the intestinal environment and that it is the apple pectin in particular that helps do the job.


    2) Nancy Dell: Ashwagandha for stress; gluten-free flours; apple peels benefits |

    3. How beneficial are the peel on an apple?
    Liam, Internet

    The peel of an apple contains at least a dozen antioxidants that reduce your risk of cancer.

    Plus research shows that peels on many fruits and vegetables have ursolic acid, a compound that can cut your risk of obesity.

    Do wash them well and try to buy organically grown apples since they are on the list of higher pesticide foods.
    Last edited by Betorq; 09-28-2012 at 04:23 AM.
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Oct 2012

    ayurvedic diet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    Athrosclerosis and osteoperosis were found in the pre-western-diet inuit. They might have been doing better than the modern SAD diet with overconsumption of fried foods, refined carbs and sugar but they weren't the pinnacle of health some people hold them to. Their diet wasn't as low-carb as some people eat either as freshly killed meat contained carbohydrates from glycogen.

    Yes. There's more to health than just the essentials. Meat isn't essential but it contains beneficial nutrients not found in significant amounts in other foods like creatine, carnitine and carnosine, pre-formed vitamin A, etc. Just like plant foods contain significant health promoting nutrients not found in animal products.
    The best diet to follow is the Ayurveda diet. I follow it religiously and take the ayurvedic herbs Ill say its the best to lose weight and maintain the weight even after losing it

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