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Thread: Is there really a nutritional need for fruits and vegetables? page 10

  1. #91
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    Athrosclerosis and osteoperosis were found in the pre-western-diet inuit. They might have been doing better than the modern SAD diet with overconsumption of fried foods, refined carbs and sugar but they weren't the pinnacle of health some people hold them to. Their diet wasn't as low-carb as some people eat either as freshly killed meat contained carbohydrates from glycogen.
    Quote Originally Posted by SarahW View Post
    Lol, maybe we should apply science to this quandary - what essential nutrients are in vegetables/fruit that are not in any edible animal parts?

    I know plants can't give us b12, and can't give us o3 very well. But what can plants uniquely give us? Can you get antioxidants or vit c from animals? (Yes, I know the inuit did get some vit c from animals, but I don't see raw adrenalin glands being sold at WF, and I don't know if the amount they ate produced optimal health.)
    Yes. There's more to health than just the essentials. Meat isn't essential but it contains beneficial nutrients not found in significant amounts in other foods like creatine, carnitine and carnosine, pre-formed vitamin A, etc. Just like plant foods contain significant health promoting nutrients not found in animal products.
    Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 09-25-2012 at 04:06 PM.

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    your an idiot, meat contains carbs in the corm of triglycerides. and milk proctects from those diseases
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by BennettC View Post
    your an idiot, meat contains carbs in the corm of triglycerides. and milk proctects from those diseases
    If you're going to call someone an idiot, try to make sure you have some idea what the hell you are talking about. Triglycerides are fats. He is correct that glycogen is the form of carbohydrate found in muscle (and liver) tissue. And where the fuck did you get this "fact" that milk makes you resistant to heart disease and osteoporosis? You do know that there's a hell of a lot more to maintaining healthy bones than calcium intake, right?
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    I know Matt Stone has made the claim for high levels of carbs in meat but I am trying to find the data. Does anyone have a link?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BennettC View Post
    your an idiot, meat contains carbs in the corm of triglycerides. and milk proctects from those diseases
    you're a cocky little guy, aint ya? annoying.

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    I'll look for the study I read on analysis of glycogen content. It remember it varied at lot depending on the species of animal, how it was killed, what it's diet was like, when it last ate, what cut of meat and how long ago it was killed. It's sure to be significantly different from the meat eaten by those on those zero-carb forums and made a significant carb difference among those eating a high meat diet.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    In Venezuela, for breakfast, we'd have scrambled brains with eggs. (Yes I know, ...scrambled brains...) These were monkey brains, a little too close for comfort for a 12 year old boy... but I did eat them, as well as the menudo & other spare parts. Menudo stank to high heaven! My favorite food there was the shark empanadas & arepas, lived on those most of my summer in Venezuela. Unless someone is regularly dining on organs of wild or organically raised animals, in my opinion, including "some" veggies in one's diet, is not an unreasonable option. I personally would not be happy cutting out small or big ass salads & fruit, both of which I already eat sparingly at this point in my journey. As many of you already know, I'm seriously into fermenting foods & veggies (I even teach classes on fermentation). They are much more digestible after undergoing fermentation, same with dairy & fruit juices, reducing their carb & sugar load & upping their probiotic, enzymatic & fatty acid profiles. For me personally, I enjoy eating them, I digest & process them well, & in my view of things, they are important parts of my total package. And like Owly said, and I second it, "I never met a vegetable I didn't like."
    Wow, I'd like to try that for breakfast sometime! I thought brain was just okay when I tried it; just tasted like a load of fat. Eggs would be a nice addition.

    Not a fan of shark. People say it's good, but I've tried the fin and the body, and none are of large appeal.

    I think you're on to something there with the gut flora. I've recently discovered Chris Kresser and am going to great lengths to get some fermented vegetables in my diet, while reducing the amount of regular vegetables. I'm feeling a lot better now that I don't have to stuff a ridiculous amount of vegetables in every day.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakey View Post
    you're a cocky little guy, aint ya? annoying.
    not cocky, confident
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarahW View Post
    Lol, maybe we should apply science to this quandary - what essential nutrients are in vegetables/fruit that are not in any edible animal parts?

    I know plants can't give us b12, and can't give us o3 very well. But what can plants uniquely give us? Can you get antioxidants or vit c from animals? (Yes, I know the inuit did get some vit c from animals, but I don't see raw adrenalin glands being sold at WF, and I don't know if the amount they ate produced optimal health.)
    I believe that thinking of food in this way is somewhat dangerous. Food is more than just vitamins and minerals. First, it's very possible that scientists still don't have a complete picture of every essential vitamin and mineral, and in what amounts we need them.

    Second, if vitamins and mineral and basic calories were all that were required to thrive, you could argue that someone could eat a diet of pure sugar or pure fat with a multivitamin. We all know that this kind of regimen wouldn't produce optimal health. But as to why, I don't think we have the answers.

    We will probably never fully understand the complex nutrtional interplay that happens when we eat real, whole foods.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    I believe that thinking of food in this way is somewhat dangerous. Food is more than just vitamins and minerals. First, it's very possible that scientists still don't have a complete picture of every essential vitamin and mineral, and in what amounts we need them.

    Second, if vitamins and mineral and basic calories were all that were required to thrive, you could argue that someone could eat a diet of pure sugar or pure fat with a multivitamin. We all know that this kind of regimen wouldn't produce optimal health. But as to why, I don't think we have the answers.

    We will probably never fully understand the complex nutrtional interplay that happens when we eat real, whole foods.
    Western thinkers tend to be analytical, reductionist & quantifiably oriented. Just give them numbers, statistics, charts & diagrams, & they're content.

    In the East, traditionally, observed energetic subtleties, quality of life & energetic effects of foods & the environment on human health are(were) more the emphasis. Hence the origins, development & refinement of systems of health & wellbeing such as Ayurveda from India & TCM from China, cumulatively over thousands of years. Even our western model of medicine and science is/was fundamentally informed by exchange of goods & knowledge via the Silk Roads trading routes.

    Ayurveda & TCM both categorize foods according to their inherent natures: warming/cooling/neutral, moisturizing/drying, building/cleansing, etc. And they observed for hundreds or even thousands of years, they did not have laboratories nor did they cut up corpses to learn anatomy & physiology. They learnt thru palpation, observation of their own experiments on themselves, & by observing & studying others in their societies, study of past medical treatisies, & their own meditation & health building practices gave them insights as well .

    If you want to know more about food effects from a non-linear perspective, if you're so inclined, you could check out these resources to start with:


    1. [PDF] Traditional Chinese Medicine Medicated Diet - TCM Diet

      tcmdiet.com/resources/tcmdietgroupebook.pdf
      File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
      3. Medicated Diet Principles. Understanding the Nature of Food according to Chinese Medicine Theory. Classification of Food. Chinese medicated diet differs in ...

    2. Traditional Chinese Medicine :: Food Therapy - Ibiblio

      www.ibiblio.org/chineseculture/contents/heal/p-heal-c01s09.html
      Jump to Cantonese Classification of Food‎: Cantonese people pay much attention to the body's reaction to food. Food items are classified ...


    1. Ayurveda - Classification of Food, Herbs & Spices, Taste, Heating or ...

      www.holistic-online.com/ayurveda/ayv-food-Herbs-classification.htm
      15+ items – Classification of Food: Meat. Information on the following Herbs ...
      Substance Taste Post Digestive Effect Properties and Action on Tridosha
      Anise Seed Pungent Pungent Light, Promotes Digestion ...
      Clove Pungent Pungent Promotes Digestion. Improves taste ...
    2. Transform your Health with Ayurveda

      www.jiva.com/ayurveda/about-ayurveda/101.html
      People desiring to follow an Ayurvedic lifestyle should include some elements from each of these categories. The Six Tastes The six tastes In Ayurveda, food is ...

    3. Ayurvedic Food Categories - Alive and Healthy Institute

      www.aliveandhealthy.com/Mood-Food.html
      Alive and Healthy Institute provides information about the ayurvedic food categories: Tamasic, Rajasic, and Sattvic to assist with healthy food education in Dallas ...

    4. Ayurvedic Diet - Eating for Balance: Choosing Foods

      www.pioneerthinking.com › Mind and BodyHealthy Body
      Feb 22, 2004 – A third ayurvedic classification of foods is by the effect they have on the non- physical aspects of the physiology--mind, heart, senses and spirit.
    Last edited by Betorq; 09-26-2012 at 02:29 AM.
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
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