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    Thanks, Lew.'s Avatar
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    What about dairy and cheese?

    Robb Wolf has dairy on his "no-no" list, but Mark doesn't.

    Do I have that right?

    I've eliminated all the grains and legumes since I started two weeks ago.

    But I'm still putting about 2 TBSP of half-and-half in my morning coffee.

    Is this OK . . . and what about cheese? I've been skipping it, but I'm wondering . . . what's the skinny on dairy?

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    Thanks, Lew.'s Avatar
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    Thanks, Joanie.

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    There are two problems with dairy: lactose (a carbohydrate) and casein (a protein). If you are intolerent to them you should avoid the dairy products which have them.

    Here's my breakdown:
    Ghee (none of either)
    Butter (small amounts of both casein and lactose)
    Cheese (small amounts of lactose, contains casein)
    Everything else (contains both protein and casein)
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

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    While I could go the rest of my life never drinking a glass of milk (and sadly, actually went years without butter), I love cheese. I would have found a way to rationalize and make it primal even if it wasn't in primal limbo. Cheese is a fermented food after all. I wouldn't eat those blocks of rubbery stuff or any cheese that ends in "z," but those nice gooey stinky cheeses from goats, sheep, and even cows - oh yeah. I give myself a cheese day every other week (at least). Big cheese day. Like that's all I eat that day.

    What was the question?

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    Metric's Avatar
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    If you don't have dairy issues, have at it, but stick to full fat (raw is best if it's available to you or non-homogonized if raw isn't available). I use only organic when it comes to dairy. 18 or 35% creams in my coffee, full-fat sour cream, cheese, butter, etc... I have dairy daily. I don't have issues with it and absolutely love it. If you suspect that you might, cut it out for a bit and see if you feel better.

    Cheers.
    Starting Weight: 208 lbs
    Current Weight: 166.8 lbs

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    While I could go the rest of my life never drinking a glass of milk (and sadly, actually went years without butter), I love cheese. I would have found a way to rationalize and make it primal even if it wasn't in primal limbo. Cheese is a fermented food after all. I wouldn't eat those blocks of rubbery stuff or any cheese that ends in "z," but those nice gooey stinky cheeses from goats, sheep, and even cows - oh yeah. I give myself a cheese day every other week (at least). Big cheese day. Like that's all I eat that day.

    What was the question?
    I haven't drunk milk since I was a kid.

    Cheese is the big one for me. I'm not lactose intolerant (that I know of). I also put just enough half and half in my coffee to turn it from black to dark brown. I suppose I could try some organic heavy cream. Or Irish butter, which I'd like to try also.

    I've been mostly paleo for about two weeks. After seeing a post about the 21-day challenge, I decided I would eliminate beer and cheese for the 21-days (starting yesterday 9-18-12). These are my main paleo (primal--I assume these terms are interchangeable?) weaknesses, especially my 1-2 IPAs with dinner.

    I have occasional access to raw goat's milk, which I enjoy. But, at $5 a quart, it certainly won't be a regular part of my diet. In addition to the taste, drinking raw milk for me is a statement of my personal sovereignty.

    Thanks for the responses!

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    Rob W and Mark don't really advocate it, but if you drink milk. Make sure it's raw. Paleo Doctors - Chris Kressler and Cate Shannahan are strong proponents of raw milk. Again, if you can tolerate it, it can be very good for you. Luckily, I live in western Mass I get raw milk for only 5 bucks per gallon.

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    From what I can tell, paleo = animals, fish, veg, limited fruit and nuts. Primal = paleo + dairy if you can tolerate it + other lifestyle benefits (fitness, stress reduction, sleep).

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    Within the Primal plan, it seems to be a personal choice. If you tolerate it and want it, you can probably do fine with it. Raw milk from a grass-fed cow is obviously the best choice. The last time I drank straight milk, that's where I got it. I don't drink straight milk from the grocery store, but I do still use cream, butter, and cheese. I feel so much better just from the changes I have already made, I don't feel the need to eliminate it, even though there's a possibility that would help me get rid of this last little bit of stubborn belly fat. But I would feel sad and deprived without cream, butter, cheese and yogurt, so I choose to keep it in my diet. This lifestyle isn't sustainable if you can't enjoy yourself.

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