Should Women FAST? page 6

[sbhikes]

Or maybe you meant nobody "should" fast in the imperative, as in someone telling you "thou shalt".

That's exactly what I meant. Anybody MAY fast, but nobody SHOULD fast.

[JoanieL]

I don't really think of "fasting" in terms of anything less than 24 hours. When people say they fast every day, as in they skip breakfast and have BP coffee instead, that's nice but not really fasting in my mind.

I might agree except that in the context of this thread, 14 hours was mentioned as a fasting period. And lots of people on this board consider 18 hours of no food to be IF. I just consider it doing that with which I'm comfortable. I also occasionally do 24 hour periods where I only consume ~450 calories in clear liquid form. I would guess that some water purists wouldn't consider that a fast.

[Paleobird]

I might agree except that in the context of this thread, 14 hours was mentioned as a fasting period. And lots of people on this board consider 18 hours of no food to be IF. I just consider it doing that with which I'm comfortable. I also occasionally do 24 hour periods where I only consume ~450 calories in clear liquid form. I would guess that some water purists wouldn't consider that a fast.

Oh, yeah, every expert has their definition and they are all different. Different levels of "spiritually purity" I guess. (Do I need to put a rolleyes here? No.) You could have breakfast at nine and dinner at five and technically be IFing every day with a 16/8 "window". Or you could just be eating the way you feel like eating. But it sounds cooler to say you are IFing.

From the research that was dug up on Piscator's recent fasting Challenge thread, it seems like most of the real benefits of fasting are just starting to kick in in earnest at the 24 hour mark. Also the research seems to show that the benefits taper off after 48 hours with only marginal extra gains for each day beyond that.

[Health Divas]

Interesting posts, ladies. Please do keep sharing, so we can learn from each other. Now I will try to address some of the concerns raised by you.

First things first, the (hormone) endorphin high when fasting. It is fact that the body’s beta-endorphin reaction is accentuated during fasting, dieting and other stresses. There’s nothing spiritual or religious about this. It isn’t any news either. It’s very much Endocrinology 101.

There are numerous papers and medical books written on this. Now, I know Mark and fans like their “research studies”. There are loads of those too. Here’s a very basic one (easy to understand):
Plasma beta-endorphin during fasting in man. [Horm Res. 1990] - PubMed - NCBI

Beta-endorphin is higher during the early days of fasting. Beta-endorphin is produced by the pituitary gland and is reported to produce a more intense sense of well-being than any of the other endorphin types.

Endorphins alleviate pain and give pleasure by binding to opioid receptors located on neurons within the brain and spinal cord. Ultimately, this is part of the reason why starvation can become addicting and partly explains the biology behind Anorexia Nervosa – something that some of you referred to.

At the same time, overeaters and sugar/carb addicts eat to trigger endorphin release too, because when these are released they feel better. Thus, food addicts who try to control their weight by will-power and behaviour modification often are actually enabling the progression of their biochemical dependency – either by binging or by fasting.

When the sugar-sensitive person tries to stop using the sugar that evokes this wonderful beta-endorphin response, the receptors start screaming. This is called withdrawal. The person experiencing withdrawal may feel cranky, irritable, and out of sorts but never knows it was last night’s sugar binge creating the horrible feelings. Cravings loom large as the beta-endorphin receptors scream and relief is as close as carbs fix. The physical dependence on sugar to relieve the discomfort of withdrawal reinforces the need to use more and more. Here’s where the food/sugar addiction grows into a real problem.

I hope I covered some of the basics.

All the best,
Health Divas

[Nady]

Interesting posts, ladies. Please do keep sharing, so we can learn from each other. Now I will try to address some of the concerns raised by you.

First things first, the (hormone) endorphin high when fasting. It is fact that the body’s beta-endorphin reaction is accentuated during fasting, dieting and other stresses. There’s nothing spiritual or religious about this. It isn’t any news either. It’s very much Endocrinology 101.

There are numerous papers and medical books written on this. Now, I know Mark and fans like their “research studies”. There are loads of those too. Here’s a very basic one (easy to understand):
Plasma beta-endorphin during fasting in man. [Horm Res. 1990] - PubMed - NCBI

Beta-endorphin is higher during the early days of fasting. Beta-endorphin is produced by the pituitary gland and is reported to produce a more intense sense of well-being than any of the other endorphin types.

Endorphins alleviate pain and give pleasure by binding to opioid receptors located on neurons within the brain and spinal cord. Ultimately, this is part of the reason why starvation can become addicting and partly explains the biology behind Anorexia Nervosa – something that some of you referred to.

At the same time, overeaters and sugar/carb addicts eat to trigger endorphin release too, because when these are released they feel better. Thus, food addicts who try to control their weight by will-power and behaviour modification often are actually enabling the progression of their biochemical dependency – either by binging or by fasting.

When the sugar-sensitive person tries to stop using the sugar that evokes this wonderful beta-endorphin response, the receptors start screaming. This is called withdrawal. The person experiencing withdrawal may feel cranky, irritable, and out of sorts but never knows it was last night’s sugar binge creating the horrible feelings. Cravings loom large as the beta-endorphin receptors scream and relief is as close as carbs fix. The physical dependence on sugar to relieve the discomfort of withdrawal reinforces the need to use more and more. Here’s where the food/sugar addiction grows into a real problem.

I hope I covered some of the basics.

All the best,
Health Divas

I think you're over-analyzing this. The human body is adaptive. Eat, don't eat, it will survive, at least in the short term. Probably depends on how much fat you have in storage.

[windypasswheeler]

Just checked out your health divas forum, nice! I have been utilizing IF for several months to aid in weight loss and give my body time to repair damage through autophagy. What I really love about IF is the simplicity: no preparing meals, no cleaning up, no packing food to go to work or on a bike ride. It seems like a natural fit for me and I intend to keep doing it.

[Paleobird]

OK, so we've transitioned from floaty, magical love chemicals to a lesson in Endocrinology 101 by Professor HD. Well at least we are talking some serious science here. This is progress.

So nice of you to include basic and "easy to understand" references for the undergrads, teach. But that study is about measurements taken between 5 and 10 days into a fast. That is starvation. And that is very much a body stressor. So, yes, in that situation, an endorphin rush is definitely going to happen.

But I don't think most people here are talking about ten day fasts. If one is well fat adapted, skipping a day or two of food is not that big of a deal for your body. There is no starvation, panic, stress, trauma, reaction going on so your whole argument is based on a faulty premise.

Now, I fully agree that mentally for many people the idea of skipping even one meal is enough to bring on a panic attack but that is not a physiological issue, it's psychological. I totally agree with you that people who are sugar and/or food addicts should not be trying fasting just yet if ever.

But thanks for coming by to plug your blog and "cover the basics" for us ignorant types here on MDA.

[heatherdarbs]

+1

Intermittent fasting actually caused a shit ton of health problems for me, so while I think the scientific research behind it is pretty cool, and I really wanted to buy into it, it was a disaster for me.

Eating one huge meal per day triggered some of the most painful IBS flares of my life. Now, as a result, I have to keep my meals small, and space them out throughout the day.

While not due solely to IF, while IFing, my fatigue got substantially worse (though likely this was also largely due to being lowish carb for too many months). I discovered that on fasting days, my body responded to the extreme calorie reduction by basically shutting down operations. I would get cold in my extremities, and in my core, I would move around less and less until basically I couldn't even get myself off the couch.

IFing destroyed my sleep. I realized that my 40-48 hour fasts basically guaranteed to the worst sleep of my life.
I know that fasting does wonders for some folks, but for me it's one of the worst things I ever inflicted on myself.

^^^ Big fat DITTO on that entire experience - today was it for me; I've never been so low on energy in my life (that I can remember, at least). My finger tips started turning white over the weekend; nice. Then I really went against the grain and had some goat yogurt and sprung back to life. Personally, I think it's time to revisit my diet and tweak it a bit. I'm trying to do the no fruit, no yogurt thing, but from past experience, this actually made everything better for me and that's when my unplanned weight and fat loss began. I didn’t even realize I had weight to lose, until it started coming off naturally.

I wish I fit into the typical/common category, since it seems tried and true by so many other people, but I’m left to trust my body to define some of the opposite concepts as successful, for me.

[gopintos]

I've never been so low on energy in my life (that I can remember, at least).

I wish I fit into the typical/common category, since it seems tried and true by so many other people, but I’m left to trust my body to define some of the opposite concepts as successful, for me.

If it isnt natural yet, I would say don't force it. It may not ever be natural for everyone. But I wouldnt completely rule it out either.

My first 24 fast was awful! Then it got better and better to the point of painless and almost standard now.

My first 48 hour was awful, even more awfuller (to further support the ignorant type haha) Anyways, it was horrible. The next one, not so bad. I expect those to get easier and easier as well.

The first time I tried to work out just before my 24 hours was up, I thought I was going to hurl.

I never would have EVER dreamed that I would IF, even if only skipping breakfast. Now, skipping breakfast is no big deal. Sometimes lunch is no big deal. And sometimes even supper is no big deal. I started doing it because, well because I wasnt hungry. Then I learned of the weight loss benefits. Now I am learning more and more about all the other benefits as well.

It really all is very fascinating.

[Paleobird]

^^^ Big fat DITTO on that entire experience - today was it for me; I've never been so low on energy in my life (that I can remember, at least). My finger tips started turning white over the weekend; nice. Then I really went against the grain and had some goat yogurt and sprung back to life. Personally, I think it's time to revisit my diet and tweak it a bit. I'm trying to do the no fruit, no yogurt thing, but from past experience, this actually made everything better for me and that's when my unplanned weight and fat loss began. I didn’t even realize I had weight to lose, until it started coming off naturally.

I wish I fit into the typical/common category, since it seems tried and true by so many other people, but I’m left to trust my body to define some of the opposite concepts as successful, for me.

Hey Heather,

I tried to answer your PM but the system won't let me, says you are not allowed to receive PMs (?)