IBS despite primal, and I'm about to lose my mind! page

[MamaGrok]

Unlike others, I seem to have developed IBS *after* going primal. !!!

The short story:
- Serious bloating issues for years, but didn't realize it till I lost a bunch a weight and could really see how my belly could go from perfectly flat to looking 6 months pregnant in a day. I know grains made this worse, but it did not go away when I went primal in Feb 2010.

- August 2011, the serious cramps/runs started. It was rare, but always within an hour after a meal.
- Dec 2011 - I noticed a correlation with dairy, & dropped it. (Also, I noticed that more often, I had stomach tenderness in the area of the gall bladder.)
- Jan 2012 - I went from 95% to 100% primal 1/1/2012. Cramps/runs stopped, but the bloating didn't.
- Feb 2012 - I dropped FodMAPS, eggs, & nightshades, but no improvement in bloating. I tried a week of just meat, fat, & ferments, no improvement. I did GAPS Intro (again, seems I'm perpetually doing GAPS), negligible, if any, change.
- March 2012 - the cramps/runs started again. Got worse & worse till June. Sometimes it would happen at 1am, many hours after a meal.
- June 2012 - SICK and TIRED of eating nothing but meat, fat, & non-starchy, non-FODMAPs veggies, & added some other fruits & veggies for a week, while lowering fat. Bloating went up, thyroid signs got much worse, but ... cramps/runs went away! I looked up IBS and found many people saying fat made it worse. Cut fats, except increased CO. Good for a few weeks, then ... cramps/runs came back. I get them even if I have a meal with nothing but lean meat. Happens even if I eat nothing but well-cooked meat, well-cooked veggies, CO, & broth. Still have near-constant pain near gall bladder, but RUQ ultrasound showed nothing.

I NEED TO EAT SOMETHING! I need to quit writhing in pain after meals, too. What is going on?

(BTW, home-fermented foods, broth, fCLO, high fat, 100% local/pastured/organic foods have been my way of life for 5 years now.)

I appreciate ANY help here, including folks sharing whether or not fat plays a role in their IBS. I know CW is crazy against fat & I need the truth. I've read every thread I can find on here about IBS, but almost all is about how primal cleared it up. (I don't think primal caused this; I think it's a result of the decades of gut abuse prior to going primal.)

[namelesswonder]

Not experienced, but this is what I've accumulated:
-L-Glutamine (10-20,000 mg per day, start lower and increase, you'll get stomach pain if you take too much) can help heal the gut. I don't know if it would have any immediate effect, but if you've got damage, this could help.
-Try something like grapefruit seed extract? It's doubtful you have Candidiasis after the way you've been eating, but if there's some kind of overgrowth or gut dysbiosis, that might help regulate (excess/pathogenic) bacteria levels so your fermented foods can actually have an effect.
-Get your doctor to accept a stool sample to test for bacteria levels. Maybe you have something else going on. This should give them/you a decent starting point to see if your gut bacteria is okay or not, even if it doesn't show all of it (you'd have to biopsy to see more). They might not be able to tell you how to treat it, unless you see a naturopath, but lab results are generally helpful.

[AuroraB]

Have you had your gallbladder tested further? Sometimes ultrasound can be normal but you may have 'sqeezability' issues. It's called an Ejection Fraction and the test is called a HIDA scan. It can test how strong the gallbladder can sqeeze/pump bile into the small intestine to help with digestion. I've seen it quite a few times where a patient will check out fine as far as RUQ ultrasound being negative and other symtoms being negative and then have a HIDA scan showing an EF of 20% - 30% (normal range is >50%).

Might be worth a check.

[ciavyn]

I'm starting to sound like a popular movie..."I see fungus..."

Seriously, my doc is convinced it's everyone's issue, 90% of the time. You sound like me -- I could bloat on water. I was diagnosed with candida overgrowth, and thus far, I've found it accurate. Some medical docs won't acknowledge it exists, but a few do, including mine. Worth checking out. Hang in there, I KNOW how frustrating it is.

[MamaGrok]

Thank you for the great thoughts so far. Seriously.

-Get your doctor to accept a stool sample to test for bacteria levels. Maybe you have something else going on.

Strangely enough, I had a complete stool analysis done last year and it showed no pathogenic bacterial overgrowth, no candida (and a blood test showed the same: no candida), no parasites, but severe fat malabsorption, vegetable malabsorption/maldigestion, & elevated levels of anti-gluten antibodies. (There was an imbalance between firmicutes/bacteriodetes, neither opportunistic, but apparently important as an adiposity index.)

Sometimes ultrasound can be normal but you may have 'sqeezability' issues. It's called an Ejection Fraction and the test is called a HIDA scan. It can test how strong the gallbladder can sqeeze/pump bile into the small intestine to help with digestion. I've seen it quite a few times where a patient will check out fine as far as RUQ ultrasound being negative and other symtoms being negative and then have a HIDA scan showing an EF of 20% - 30% (normal range is >50%).

Very interesting; I will look into that. I'm also suspecting the pituitary signal for the gall bladder to release bile may not be up to par. I already know the same is happening with the pituitary signal to my thyroid.

Seriously, my doc is convinced it's everyone's issue, 90% of the time. You sound like me -- I could bloat on water. I was diagnosed with candida overgrowth, and thus far, I've found it accurate.

I wish I wish I wish! Tested negative in stool and blood, but regardless, I've been eating anti-candida 99% of the time for the last three years bc I was convinced I had it. I went the whole 9 yards, including daily ACV/CO/garlic/oil of oregano, daily broth, daily homemade ferments, no sweets or carrots or starchy veggies or fruit or nuts for months and months. No improvement in bloat or cravings. *sigh*

[Kelmar]

Well I was going to suggest 2 tsp twice daily of ACV in 8 oz in water but it seems you've already tried that...hope you get it figured out very soon...sounds very miserable! Blessings and positive energy to you...

[solstice]

I assume you are avoiding chocolate? That was becoming a trigger for me. I had a bout of IBS a few months back that baffled me...but my chocolate and overall caffeine intake were up and I got rid of those and things improved. Also, I cannot tolerate vinegar---might be the same with fermented foods. I do take probiotics -- Kyodophilus and Threelac -- which have always been beneficial for me.

[Blackcatbone]

If your gluten antibodies were way up then gluten intolerance/celiac is likely an issue for you. You obviously aren't eating gluten, but is anyone else in the house? And have you gone through your kitchen to check for potential cross-contamination? Eliminated every possible source? This will mean replacing some of your cookware if you used it with gluten containing foods, making sure that if anyone in your house does eat gluten they use separate sponges to clean their dishes, etc . . . There's gobs of info online if you google it about how to be sure that you don't get glutened. Of course, it may well be dysbiosis issues as well, as they tend to accompany gluten problems, but making sure that you aren't accidentally getting gluten may well be a factor.

[Blackcatbone]

Oh, and as for the pain that feels like it's from your gall bladder, look up "hepatic flexure syndrome". I get splenic flexure syndrome (the other side) when I eat something that doesn't agree with me. What usually works for me is to lay on my side with the painful side facing down. Then massage the area, trying to get your fingers up under your ribs a bit. If it's a flexure syndrome problem this will move the gas along. You can also try a heating pad, which seems to soothe it for me.

[MamaGrok]

Thanks again, y'all. There hasn't been any gluten in our house in the last year, but it's possible I get a trace amount in some restaurant food once every three months or so. I've never been so sensitive to it, though, that it causes symptoms far and above anything else, or noticeable in an immediate sense.

I'll look into the flexure issue. I don't think it's gas, though. Even when I'm terribly bloated, I never pass gas or burp, which totally mystifies me. Even the intestinal pain isn't distension discomfort; it's labor-like waves of cramps. Literally, just like labor, just a different set of muscles. My body has decided it's time to evacuate and OUT it goes, stat!

I strongly dislike chocolate. Lost my woman card, yeah, I know.

I go through bouts of drinking a lot of green tea and then not, but notice no correlation. I consume no other caffeine.

I thought sparkling water might be related, so I downed a bunch to test it, and no reaction, so don't think that's doing it, either.

I'm so confused.

I wonder if the reactions may be much more delayed than I realize. Like, eating obviously triggers it within an hour, but is the fact that I'm reacting to that meal because of something my body couldn't tolerate a few days ago, rather than what is actually in that meal? Could be. And that confounds things so much.

But again, I went six months with not a speck of gluten, dairy, sugar, starch, or even so much as a berry, and still, the debilitating cramps & runs starting happening more and more as time went on.

I need a gut PI. Doctors sure haven't helped any. I'm glad to have some new leads to track down; thank you all for that. I welcome any more!