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Thread: Fat adapted different from keto-adapted? page 2

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakey View Post
    they are completely different. ketosis is a state that occurs when you burn fat in the absence of carbohydrate. normally you use glucose to burn fat (called beta oxidation). if you burn it without glucose, ketones are produced as a byproduct and appear in your blood and urine. you can use them as fuel for your brain and other tissues, but must adapt to it.

    to be clear, i think that ketosis offers no metabolic advantage, and seems to be shrouded in excessive mythos. but i hope it gets you where you hope to go!
    Jakey, what you think and spread on these threads concerning your negative views of ketosis are NOT supported by imminent scientists world-wide, they are the authorities on the science. Not you, not me, not any of us have anything resembling their knowledge. And THEY ALL STUDY KETOSIS AND FASTING, and report positively on its many many documented health benefits. Why is that, do you 'think'?
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    This is it in a nutshell.^^^^ Fat adapted is what Mark calls being a Fat Burning Beast (do a search on that term. good MDA post)

    Ketosis does cause your body to shed excess water weight and along with it a lot of electrolytes can get flushed (literally) out. The reason you are having headaches is probably some combination of dehydration and lack of salt.
    Headaches can also be evidence of a detox. Burning fat can release toxins which are recirculating in the bloodstream. Those toxins will be/can be eaten, along with other negative factors in the body, but it takes time... They can also be excreted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtrain_36 View Post
    Well I haven't increased it no, but it wasn't exactly low to begin with. Breakfast usually is almost always some form of eggs and bacon and I always add salt on top of that, so I don't think salt is the problem.
    Bacon is tasty and I generally eat in on the weekend as a treat. For me, its part of the 20%. I wouldn't recommend it to others for trying to achieve or stay in ketosis, nor would I eat bacon myself in striving to hit/stay in ketosis. Imo, it's not clean enough, too processed for my standards. But thats just me. I eat much simpler pre- & post- of my ketotic fasts, mostly fat, mod protein & VLC, than my standard fare.

    @Drumroll:

    Originally Posted by Drumroll

    "Being fat-adapted means your body can utilize both ketones and sugar as energy. You want to be fat adapted rather than ketone-adapted. Ketone-adapted means your body is so used to utilizing ketones that it might have trouble utilizing sugars should they be reintroduced in significant enough quantity."

    Can you cite your sources for this info? Thanks!

    I might have read that somewhere & brain farted it out of my memory...
    Last edited by Betorq; 09-17-2012 at 06:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    Bacon is tasty and I generally eat in on the weekend as a treat. For me, its part of the 20%. I wouldn't recommend it to others for trying to achieve or stay in ketosis, nor would I eat bacon myself in striving to hit/stay in ketosis. Imo, it's not clean enough, too processed for my standards. But thats just me. I eat much simpler pre- & post- of my ketotic fasts, mostly fat, mod protein & VLC, than my standard fare.
    While I wish I could change this right now I'm in college and am stuck with the food that's on the menu at the various cafeterias in the dorm. I guarantee you that I am not eating 100% paleo just based off of vegetable oils that I can't really avoid. It's an unfortunate circumstance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    @Drumroll:

    Originally Posted by Drumroll

    "Being fat-adapted means your body can utilize both ketones and sugar as energy. You want to be fat adapted rather than ketone-adapted. Ketone-adapted means your body is so used to utilizing ketones that it might have trouble utilizing sugars should they be reintroduced in significant enough quantity."

    Can you cite your sources for this info? Thanks!

    I might have read that somewhere & brain farted it out of my memory...
    I'm looking. I read it a while back, but only once or twice I think. Ugh, I can't find it so far. I THINK it was like almost a year ago that I read it?

    It was in connection largely to the people who use deep ketogenic diets for therapeutic purposes, such as epilepsy. It didn't relate to the lighter version of ketosis most weightlifters, paleo/primal, low-carb enthusiasts are usually after.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    Bacon is tasty and I generally eat in on the weekend as a treat. For me, its part of the 20%. I wouldn't recommend it to others for trying to achieve or stay in ketosis, nor would I eat bacon myself in striving to hit/stay in ketosis. Imo, it's not clean enough, too processed for my standards. But thats just me. I eat much simpler pre- & post- of my ketotic fasts, mostly fat, mod protein & VLC, than my standard fare.

    @Drumroll:

    Originally Posted by Drumroll

    "Being fat-adapted means your body can utilize both ketones and sugar as energy. You want to be fat adapted rather than ketone-adapted. Ketone-adapted means your body is so used to utilizing ketones that it might have trouble utilizing sugars should they be reintroduced in significant enough quantity."

    Can you cite your sources for this info? Thanks!

    I might have read that somewhere & brain farted it out of my memory...
    What's the reasoning behind abstaining from bacon pertaining to ketosis? Bacon will not prevent you from entering or kick you out of ketosis...
    Last edited by Fernaldo; 09-17-2012 at 07:36 PM.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernaldo View Post
    What's the reasoning behind abstaining from bacon pertaining to ketosis? Bacon will not prevent you from entering or kick you out of ketosis...
    Betorg abstains because Bacon is normally more processed than just normal meat and he is more minimalist in terms of daily eats....not that it keeps him from entering a ketogenic state...

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    I might have read that somewhere & brain farted it out of my memory...
    I'm totally stealing this line . I can probably use it a hundred times a day!
    Started Feb 18 2011

    Journalling here

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtrain_36 View Post
    Well I haven't increased it no, but it wasn't exactly low to begin with. Breakfast usually is almost always some form of eggs and bacon and I always add salt on top of that, so I don't think salt is the problem.
    During the transitional period, you need to eat more salt than you think you might. No I can't give you an exact # of grams, just your regular salt plus some.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtrain_36 View Post
    When one is simply fat adapted, say eating 100g of carbs a day, are they burning ketones? Or at this point is it simply burning dietary fat?
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    Probably just the dietary fat at that point. Excepting days of higher physical activity levels, where you might hit ketosis. But just the fact that you are fat-adapted means you can do this to begin with. If you weren't, your body would be stuck to burning glycogen which was made from converting protein in muscles to glucose. Not good.
    Good answer. This is why fat adaptation is beneficial to everyone regardless of if they choose to pursue nutritional ketosis as a steady state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    @Drumroll: Originally Posted by Drumroll

    "Being fat-adapted means your body can utilize both ketones and sugar as energy. You want to be fat adapted rather than ketone-adapted. Ketone-adapted means your body is so used to utilizing ketones that it might have trouble utilizing sugars should they be reintroduced in significant enough quantity."

    Can you cite your sources for this info? Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    I'm looking. I read it a while back, but only once or twice I think. Ugh, I can't find it so far. I THINK it was like almost a year ago that I read it?
    It was in connection largely to the people who use deep ketogenic diets for therapeutic purposes, such as epilepsy. It didn't relate to the lighter version of ketosis most weightlifters, paleo/primal, low-carb enthusiasts are usually after.
    I have been doing research on ketosis and epilepsy a lot over the past year or two and I think the reason you aren't finding it is because it doesn't work that way. You may have misread something. But if you can find it I'd like to see it too.

    Your body does not "forget" how to process glucose if you eat low carb too long. Even if you are eating zero carbs, there is still gluconeogenesis going on so there is always some glucose in the mix. Conversely, however, if you eat often and eat mostly carbs , since your body burns carbs first, the fat will just get stored and the body will get out of the habit of burning fat. Hence the carb flu transition for some people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawyerchick12 View Post
    Betorg abstains because Bacon is normally more processed than just normal meat and he is more minimalist in terms of daily eats....not that it keeps him from entering a ketogenic state...
    This plus, depending on the brand, there can be a lot of sugar involved in the curing process.

  10. #20
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    Well thanks for the information everyone. Today saw my headache and "not quite all there" feeling disappear. This morning I liberally salted my food so maybe that was the case, or maybe I'm just starting to adapt better.

    Thanks again

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