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Thread: Most informative, least biased article on pros & cons of Soy I've ever read page 9

  1. #81
    Lawyerchick12's Avatar
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    James, I actually like some of the things you write and can clearly see that you are extremely intelligent in your areas of research and versed in its understanding as well. I respect the fact that you are willing to provide concrete rationale and evidence that goes against the grain especially in a forum where most people will tow the same line of thinking (like attracts like afterall).

    I think the issue a lot of people have with you is how your points come across. I know people already have a defence when replying to you without actually reading what you have to write about but then again your abrasive nature does not help matters.

    You mentioned u never initiate any personal attacks, but yet, in your introductory post you kept saying something along the lines of "common sense would dictate" or "if people had common sense they would know"...anywho something along those lines. That in and of itself already creates a defensive mechanism to anyone who eventually responds to you because you are pretty much saying that anyone who does not know the science and/or facts about soy or had misinformation about soy does not have common sense. I mean you are obviously smart enough to figure out the drawbacks with that kind of reasoning.

    Anywho I don't care either way about soy just not a fan of the taste but I am pretty much a blank slate soaking both sides of the debate and information. I like learning..as is. I just wanted to point out a reason for why you might have a hard time in getting your messages across albeit well intentioned.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    First of all you need to look up the definition of debate.

    Secondly, if you were so unconcerned with what I had to say you would not keep reading what I wrote so you have an excuse to respond in a debate.
    For such a smart guy, you can certainly be a bit of a moron. I'll not be needing a link to "debate" on dictionary.com, thank you sir. Apparently you haven't picked up (it's not like I haven't advertised it IN THIS THREAD) that I'm having a very good time at your expense...... reading every word you've written...... but still you somehow think that I'm interested in disproving anything you've said. Again, I'm much more interested in how you choose to present your arguments than anything you've managed to say.
    Went Primal: 20 DEC 2011
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    "Paleo? Try it, but be wary of the cult mentality that comes with it. Paleovangelists are everywhere and a bit scary."

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by BONZ View Post
    Oh, woe is you! You're just an oppressed little poster trying to help the non-soy masses see the light, huh? Dude, I haven't been on this forum that long and I already know you. I know exactly what you're going to say before you say it. You troll a forum, based in peleo eating, and pimp soy often times as a superior food source to meat, fish, and fowl. It doesn't matter how much research you do, you're not braking any ground. You're not original, nor an innovator accomplishing major medical breakthroughs. You write blogs, and when you're not doing that you pop in here and who knows where else..... plug "soy" in the search bar and find any new threads you haven't managed to get your name on yet. How do you think I knew you'd be here..... IT'S WHAT YOU DO! An agitator, digging around in a crowd of people you know for a fact are going to be apathetic at best, hostile at worst, to most of what you have to say. You could have your little debates if you had any measure of decorum, but you don't. If every thread that you post in ends in overt hostility..... odds are you are the lowest common denomonator. If everytime I got out to dinner, I get punched in the mouth...... there's a good chance I'm an asshole! Excuse me if I'm laughing my butt off here, but you're classic dude! I couldn't make you up if I tried.....

    here's what's stuck in my head right now....

    http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2009_..._Moore_001.jpg
    Bonz, Remind me to stay on your good side... Wow, touche' re: JamesS being the worst kind of troll! Maybe the "S" on the end of his name stands for "Soybean"
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawyerchick12 View Post
    James, I actually like some of the things you write and can clearly see that you are extremely intelligent in your areas of research and versed in its understanding as well. I respect the fact that you are willing to provide concrete rationale and evidence that goes against the grain especially in a forum where most people will tow the same line of thinking (like attracts like afterall).

    I think the issue a lot of people have with you is how your points come across. I know people already have a defence when replying to you without actually reading what you have to write about but then again your abrasive nature does not help matters.

    You mentioned u never initiate any personal attacks, but yet, in your introductory post you kept saying something along the lines of "common sense would dictate" or "if people had common sense they would know"...anywho something along those lines. That in and of itself already creates a defensive mechanism to anyone who eventually responds to you because you are pretty much saying that anyone who does not know the science and/or facts about soy or had misinformation about soy does not have common sense. I mean you are obviously smart enough to figure out the drawbacks with that kind of reasoning.

    Anywho I don't care either way about soy just not a fan of the taste but I am pretty much a blank slate soaking both sides of the debate and information. I like learning..as is. I just wanted to point out a reason for why you might have a hard time in getting your messages across albeit well intentioned.
    My God, Lawyerchick I love you! I should've typed faster and I would've seen this. Here, JamesS, let me break that down for you. All of that equals "Don't be a complete douche, and people will be more likely to absorb some of the information you present. Continue being a dick, and you'll be the best "debater" not invited to the table."
    Went Primal: 20 DEC 2011
    Starting: 6'1" 220 lbs
    Starting Energy: "bleh...."
    Current: 183 lbs @ 8.33% BF (Jackson/Pollock 4 caliper method)
    Current Energy: "WOOHOO!" See my journal HERE.

    "Paleo? Try it, but be wary of the cult mentality that comes with it. Paleovangelists are everywhere and a bit scary."

  5. #85
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    Good god , James I/we concede. Ok, you win: You're right....

    Now just go away. You make my brain hurt w/ this incessant nattering...
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
    "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
    "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown


  6. #86
    BONZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betorq View Post
    Bonz, Remind me to stay on your good side... Wow, touche' re: JamesS being the worst kind of troll! Maybe the "S" on the end of his name stands for "Soybean"
    The dude is smart, he's obviously done his homework. Whether he's right or not, I'll leave to somebody who gives a damn about soy.... but if you're going to be a smarmy, snarky little dick don't be suprised if nobody listens to you.... haha
    Went Primal: 20 DEC 2011
    Starting: 6'1" 220 lbs
    Starting Energy: "bleh...."
    Current: 183 lbs @ 8.33% BF (Jackson/Pollock 4 caliper method)
    Current Energy: "WOOHOO!" See my journal HERE.

    "Paleo? Try it, but be wary of the cult mentality that comes with it. Paleovangelists are everywhere and a bit scary."

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    Mommy, what's a douchenozzle?

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    This just got posted on another thread but it is an interview with yet another doctor saying the same things I have been saying all along that Paleobird keeps claiming I and all my evidence from the medical journals and from the statements of other doctors are wrong just because she says so:

    KGNU Calcium and Heart Disease 2010.mp4 - YouTube
    I've actually seen that. He actually states that a bone density scan of a child would show "a horrible case of osteoperosis"....this according to him would be WITH a strong matrix, but without mineral. In your previous responses this was the exact thing you were calling osteopenia.....rather than osteoperosis. I don't see were Dr. Rosedale is attempting to make that differential so much as discussing the overconsumption and assumed necessity of calcium. While I actually thing your remarks in previous threads as to the difference is more accurate, the diagnostic values in place do come down to simply measuring bone density. So you have to understand that clinically these things are treated almost the same. And particularly on this board in terms of preventative recommendations to increase weight bearing exercise, get vitamin D replete, take magnesium, and such rarely include any mention of supplementing calcium. Most around here are relatively well versed in the negative side effects of calcium supplementation. Obviously these recommendations and or testing would have to be a bit different if your dealing with the other bone disorders that were mentioned in that previous thread (osteomalacia/rickets).

  9. #89
    JamesS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawyerchick12 View Post
    James, I actually like some of the things you write and can clearly see that you are extremely intelligent in your areas of research and versed in its understanding as well. I respect the fact that you are willing to provide concrete rationale and evidence that goes against the grain especially in a forum where most people will tow the same line of thinking (like attracts like afterall).

    I think the issue a lot of people have with you is how your points come across. I know people already have a defence when replying to you without actually reading what you have to write about but then again your abrasive nature does not help matters.

    You mentioned u never initiate any personal attacks, but yet, in your introductory post you kept saying something along the lines of "common sense would dictate" or "if people had common sense they would know"...anywho something along those lines. That in and of itself already creates a defensive mechanism to anyone who eventually responds to you because you are pretty much saying that anyone who does not know the science and/or facts about soy or had misinformation about soy does not have common sense. I mean you are obviously smart enough to figure out the drawbacks with that kind of reasoning.

    Anywho I don't care either way about soy just not a fan of the taste but I am pretty much a blank slate soaking both sides of the debate and information. I like learning..as is. I just wanted to point out a reason for why you might have a hard time in getting your messages across albeit well intentioned.
    HI Lawyerchick,

    I see your point, but keep in mind that what you are referring to does not constitute a personal attack. But I do agree that I could have handled things a little differently. On the other hand I find it interesting that the focus keeps getting put on me and people ignore the fact that I was being targeted in this thread even before I made my first post. Then there is the fact that I mentioned about people playing games, which one poster just admitted to in another post. Yet despite all this and the continued attacks off topic I am being made out to be the bad guy. So how is it that if I make a generalization about people not using common sense for example and I am evil yet people can be posting personal attacks against me even before I start posting and they can continue throughout the entire thread and not only is there not even a peep about that but I am not expected to react even though it is acceptable for people to react to a generalization that is not a personal attack. You don't see something wrong with this extreme one sidedness? I feel like I am in the middle of a bunch of juveniles in high school and because I am not part of their clique and kissing their butts that I am to be ostracized as much as possible. Its too bad that expression of other ideas is so controlled by a few here so that only what they approve is allowed. That really discredits a site since only a few views, right or wrong, are allowed. So if false information is being propagated people are still only going to hear that false information. Being a lawyer that would be like you going in to Court and only the opposing counsel being able to speak and present evidence. Would you like that and think it is fair? What would our court system be like if that were the case? Everyone would be guilty or innocent depending on what side is allowed to speak and present evidence.

    James

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by BONZ View Post
    For such a smart guy, you can certainly be a bit of a moron. I'll not be needing a link to "debate" on dictionary.com, thank you sir. Apparently you haven't picked up (it's not like I haven't advertised it IN THIS THREAD) that I'm having a very good time at your expense......
    Why do you think I mentioned in an earlier post about people who have no clue what they are talking about playing games. You're not near as smart as you want to believe.

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