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Thread: Is Paleo nothing more than Atkins Diet reborn ???? page 3

  1. #21
    Scott F's Avatar
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    These stone age figurines, Venus figures, have been found all over Europe and date to 20,000-30,000 years. It's speculation but in the book Johnson talks about the head dress, or beaded hair, of these figurines represent a bee hive. IOW some of the girls may have been feed honey in an attempt to fatten them up in anticipation for pregnancy during extended lean times.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  2. #22
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    One other thought -- my emphasis has been on diet because that's what has been least healthy about me. One of the other posters was right about there being 10 primal laws:
    1. Eat plants and animals
    2. Avoid poisonous things
    3. Move frequently at a slow pace
    4. Lift heavy things
    5. Sprint once in a while
    6. Get adequate sleep
    7. Play
    8. Get adequate sunlight
    9. Avoid stupid mistakes
    10. Use your brain

    My focus has been on #1 and #2 on this list, because that's where I needed the most help. I move frequently at a slow pace (usually nice 4-mile walk with the dog, sometimes shorter but more strenuous hikes on the weekend). I already get adequate sleep. I play. I get sunlight. I try like hell to avoid stupid mistakes. I use my brain. That just leaves LHT, which I do a little of, and sprint, which I have to commit to at some point.
    My point here is that many people may be here for all 10 reasons, but may be focusing on different points that will make the biggest difference to them immediately, sort of a tunnel-vision perspective, if you will. Perhaps they already have certain habits, so they may not even think about the fact that they're following a primal blueprint law by getting adequate sleep or sprinting. As a second nature behavior, they wouldn't necessarily think about it. For example, I automatically don't steal, which comes from a different set of commandments, but I don't think every night when I go to bed that I've not stolen something that day. So I move and get sun and don't really think about the fact that I'm meeting two commandments of the primal blueprint. It's just second nature. But avoiding poisons is still newish to me, as is eating bacon (happily enough), so those are the areas where I tend to concentrate.

  3. #23
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    Bennett, I think you are a very enthusiastic young guy who has found what works for him and has assumed that he's found the one true way. Some of us tried vlc for a long time and found that extended ketosis did not work. I have never had a big sweet tooth and didn't crave sugar. I simply felt depressed, and my physical and mental fatigue did not get better even after weeks and weeks of trying to adapt. I get irritated when someone insists that was food addiction and that maybe I didn't try hard enough or was doing it wrong. The simple solution for me was an increase in carb intake, and my weight loss stall actually broke when I did that. I am leaner and happier eating some fruit and potatoes.

    I don't like someone arrogantly insisting that my experience is untrue. You are young and excited and don't realize that not all of us were obese kids with messed up metabolisms and therefore might not need to (or want to) eat like you. Optimum health for me comes with eating moderate levels of clean carbs to maintain my mental health as well as the physical aspects.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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  4. #24
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    I like what Owly is saying, and I would like to emphasize the self-experimentation portion. As long as you do not starve yourself and stick to as natural foods as possible you can try and try again to find your optimal foods. I know that I have become more willing to experiment since I went exploring different ways to eat. I am not big on theory for all, I concentrate on my body's workings and its many quirks. It is actually interesting.
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  5. #25
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    For instance there have been a lot of threads recently about depression issues because of low carb, in my opinion that's just food addiction and people are looking for something else to place blame on.
    Yeah, no that's not right. The problem is that you are talking to people who have heard for years "willpower this", "weak that", "try harder".

    I can't go VLC unless you want me to rip your head off and throw it across the room. And then promptly fall asleep. The good thing is that it doesn't take much in terms of carbs- two servings of fruit and something like a sweet potato to make me not like that.

    Part of primal is finding what works for you- science aside, you can only be miserable for so long before you have to throw in the towel. You can throw in the towel and have a few servings of primal approved fruit...or just walk away back to SAD and CW.

    I think the problem with your comment is that it encourages people to give up on primal, versus using all the approved foods to make a diet that works for that body. I read it all the time "I can't handle being primal, all I eat are meats, green veggies and fat and I feel like shit".... well, you do know you can eat fruits and a number of starches.

    And low fat/high carb works great for a lot of people.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    Bennett, I think you are a very enthusiastic young guy who has found what works for him and has assumed that he's found the one true way. Some of us tried vlc for a long time and found that extended ketosis did not work. I have never had a big sweet tooth and didn't crave sugar. I simply felt depressed, and my physical and mental fatigue did not get better even after weeks and weeks of trying to adapt. I get irritated when someone insists that was food addiction and that maybe I didn't try hard enough or was doing it wrong. The simple solution for me was an increase in carb intake, and my weight loss stall actually broke when I did that. I am leaner and happier eating some fruit and potatoes.

    I don't like someone arrogantly insisting that my experience is untrue. You are young and excited and don't realize that not all of us were obese kids with messed up metabolisms and therefore might not need to (or want to) eat like you. Optimum health for me comes with eating moderate levels of clean carbs to maintain my mental health as well as the physical aspects.
    When did I say your experience was untrue, I believe you. You persist that carbs work for you, good for you. And I wasn't particularly referring to you with the depression issue nor was I being arrogant or unsentimental. I've been down that road with more than depression, suicide attempts. I'm simply beating on the point that there are over 7,000 published scientific paper on glycation and how its killing us in the form of disease and rapid aging. These are scientific facts that you cannot argue with and this information needs to get out there. Do you even know what glycation is? And if you didn't lose weight on low carb I would bet money your calories weren't right. I gained 10lbs when I started vlc because I did not count my calories and I drank heavy whipping cream all morning. Personal opinions cannot argue with facts. They taught me the difference between fact and opinion in the first grade! If you don't believe all this, get out there and do your homework. Just because I'm young doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about, I did my homework and my research. Glad you found what works for you and have peace of mind.
    Last edited by BennettC; 09-17-2012 at 09:43 AM.
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  7. #27
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    You persist that carbs work for you, good for you. And I wasn't particularly referring to you with the depression issue nor was I being arrogant or unsentimental.
    If that's your goal, you might want to re-word this statement:

    These are scientific facts that you cannot argue with and this information needs to get out there. Do you even know what glycation is? And if you didn't lose weight on low carb I would bet money your calories weren't right.
    That's right there, is pretty hard for a person to accept as a friendly chat/suggestion. If you do want to attract someone's attention to your heart's belief, you would catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Trying to avoid confrontational wording that states super-directly and aggressively that the other person is wrong, or assumes that s/he 'can't deny' your righteousness is a not the most most winning strategy. Gentler, smoother wording is generally more convincing and seductive.
    Last edited by Leida; 09-17-2012 at 09:58 AM.
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  8. #28
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    I have read the research, thanks. Those issues tend to come with very high blood sugars, which aren't a problem for me. And don't just assume I overate. I measured and tracked every bite of food I put in my mouth to the point of obsession (ate 2 chocolate chips, gotta put it into FitDay asap!). You have no idea how miserable I was, what it was doing to my academic life (I'm a grad student), my mental health, and my relationship. VLC does not work for everyone and insisting it does won't make it so.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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  9. #29
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    I feel like you just keep making things up about me. When did I insist everyone should eat a vlc diet? I said it is scientifically proven to be the best way to burn fat, avoid disease, and rapid aging. The choice is personal. People ultimately do what is best for them in their mind. Have you read all these peoples post about their weight loss being stalled? I just give them the facts, I'm not telling anyone what to do. It's their life, but for you to go out and tell them that maybe they should eat some more carbohydrates for weight loss is absolutely ridiculous. For mental saneness perhaps because its also hard to lose it your under stress or depressed. Either way the way you come off in your post towards me, why would I write my words off like honey, I'll throw vinegar in your face. Your just being defensive, understandable but I'm not attacking you I'm just putting facts out there for the ignornant
    Paleo since November 2011 - Carnivore since June 2012
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  10. #30
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    And you wonder why you get called arrogant? Carbs broke my stall and work well for me, but I don't insist they're best for everyone. Why do you need to insist your way is the only one for optimal health? Many people around here are lean and healthy on a range of macros, and a look at long lived cultures around the world shows a similar diversity.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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