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Thread: Bloomberg's Soda Bill Passes page 4

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    This thread: Freedom 1,000,000,000,000 Statists 0
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanbiesbrouck View Post
    "First they came for my Sprite...and I said nothing..."

    .......
    b) They outlaw a lot of things. (Raw Milk, among them). Are you advocating zero government? To me, the "It's a slippery slope argument" is always a sign someone unwilling to have a serious discussion. Just because a government can do 'some' things, doesn't automatically mean they will do 'every' thing..
    I find little to be taken seriously in anything you've written here. (wipes the smirk...... off my face......)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanbiesbrouck View Post
    ........


    d) Do I love it? Not really. But, do I applaud Bloomberg for looking around, seeing an epidemic, and experimenting with small steps to fix it? Yes. The smoking ban in NYC is fking genius. It makes my nights out in bars, etc 100% better. They put calorie counts on many restaurant menus, and that helps. This too, will help. If it bombs, they'll repeal it & try something else.

    I don't mind when they try and fail. I mind when they stop trying.
    And that is a big reason why.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanbiesbrouck View Post
    The history of government fuel economy standards flies in stark contrast to your statement.

    Back in the 70s, the govt asked for higher fuel economy. Auto companies said they couldn't do it, claimed it was harmful govt interference on the public market, said it would ruin their profits & throw people out of work. Only, they ended up doing all of that by themselves, through incompetence & managerial inertia. "People won't buy those little cars", they said. Then, the big 3 spent 25 years with Honda & Toyota eating their lunch, and now you can buy a 300hp Camaro or Ford Mustang that gets 30mpg, something only the smallest Hondas were getting 30 years ago. Invisible hand of the market, every once in a great while, needs a kick in the butt from Uncle Sam.

    Yes, not every car sold today is a prius or a leaf. Yes, there was an SUV bubble. Yes, many people started driving 20mpg cars, then 30mpg cars only as gas prices went up. But, the govt raising fuel economy standards is PART of the equation. Without the govt pushing things forward now & again, fewer things would get done. Is govt always the answer? Hell no. They should aim to keep things safe, fair, and stay largely out of the way. But, now & again...there is a place for govt. Seat belts. Fuel economy. Drinking age. Just because they aren't always right, doesn't mean they are always wrong, either.
    CAFE standards have, I'm sure, killed more people than cancer and are generally why your car is made out of fiberglass. I'm sure you're perfectly fine with more dead highway travelers unfortunate enough to get in a wreck, provided it met a greater societal need to conserve energy resources, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanbiesbrouck View Post

    True story: If you got elected in November & made Mark Sisson head of the FDA...people would instantly bitch about a nanny state when he told them to stop eating grains. Only, for the first time in a long time, the govt would be actually be right about the American diet.
    But top down behavioral mandates are a particular feature you appreciate in government..... as long as your guy is in charge of it, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanbiesbrouck View Post

    To partially agree with the thread: I'm not a fan of the government making decisions for everyone all of the time. But...look around, everyone's fat.
    I don't believe that last sentence one bit. Given what you've written, I believe that if you convince yourself you've got the best idea on how to "fix" somebody elses problem.... you'd have no problem imposing it on them through coercive force.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanbiesbrouck View Post

    All that this 'ban' does is:

    (a) force you to into a smaller, more appropriate portion size, and
    (b) charge you more for excessive amounts of sugary soda.

    The ban does not say that you can't buy 48oz of regular coke. Just, now it'll cost you $ 6 instead of $ 3 (or whatever). The net effect of that is that people will cut back, because it acts like a luxury tax on a bad decision. If you still want 32oz in one sitting, just pay the $ 6 and shut up about it. Poor people, who often suffer from a lack of proper nutritional information and poor choices, will start to see calories from soda come down slightly. Will it fix everyone's type 2 diabetes? No. Will it make everyone a grok? No. Are there loopholes? Yes. Is it perfect? No.

    But it's a step, just like fuel economy standards are a step, just like cigarette warning labels are a step. Just like stopping the consumption of grains...was a step.
    Well since you put it that way...... nope, still not on board.
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  3. #33
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    How many of you were up in arms about the huge increase in "stop-and-frisk" laws in NYC? I don't recall much outrage fromt the "libertarian" types.

    Maybe it's just me, but getting a government pat down seems like a much more insidious infrigement than limitingg a big gulp.

    Please spare me your "statism" crap. It's foolish. Most of you don't really care about it. You've just been conditioned to get your dander up about any law that affects big corporations.
    Last edited by Rojo; 09-14-2012 at 12:47 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    How many of you were up in arms about the huge increase in "stop-and-frisk" laws in NYC? I don't recall much outrage fromt the "libertarian" types.

    Maybe it's just me, but getting a government pat down seems like a much more insidious infrigement than limitingg a big gulp.

    Please spare me your "statism" crap. It's foolish. Most of you don't really care about it. You've just been conditioned to get your dander up about any law that affects big corporations.
    Spare me your "spare me" crap, I've got a huge problem with stop and frisk...... along with almost everything else the city of New Yank has to offer vis a vis government innovation. I'd really like to see Bloomberg stop spending NY taxpayer money to send UC NYPD down to gun stores in the South trying to entrap store owners into straw purchases. How about New York takes responsibility for New York gun violence and stops blaming every other state besides Illinois (since you can barely own a weapon in Illinois anyway)?
    Went Primal: 20 DEC 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    How many of you were up in arms about the huge increase in "stop-and-frisk" laws in NYC? I don't recall much outrage fromt the "libertarian" types.

    Maybe it's just me, but getting a government pat down seems like a much more insidious infrigement than limitingg a big gulp.

    Please spare me your "statism" crap. It's foolish. Most of you don't really care about it. You've just been conditioned to get your dander up about any law that affects big corporations.
    I'd imagine a big reason for that topic not coming up here would be that this is a... food forum?

  6. #36
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    this forum? a food forum, you say?!

    pish posh!
    beautiful
    yeah you are

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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    This thread: Freedom 1,000,000,000,000 Statists 0
    As a non-American I find this thread quite an eye-opener. In Europe after the second world war something called the welfare state was built: affordable housing, free healthcare, public schools of very good quality, etc. By the evil government, yes. Now right-wing neoliberals all over Europe who follow the so-called "invisible hand" of the "market" want to destroy those achievements and go the American "free for all" way. Soon ordinary working people in Europe too won't be able to afford going to a hospital, give our kids decent education. Think about that for a second before you paint "government" (as if it doesn't matter what politics they have) with the evil brush.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingPig View Post
    As a non-American I find this thread quite an eye-opener. In Europe after the second world war something called the welfare state was built: affordable housing, free healthcare, public schools of very good quality, etc. By the evil government, yes. Now right-wing neoliberals all over Europe who follow the so-called "invisible hand" of the "market" want to destroy those achievements and go the American "free for all" way. Soon ordinary working people in Europe too won't be able to afford going to a hospital, give our kids decent education. Think about that for a second before you paint "government" (as if it doesn't matter what politics they have) with the evil brush.
    Dear Sir or Madam,
    How much as a percentage of your income are you paying in taxes? You're not getting anything free, you're also not getting a choice in what your money is spent on. Beyond that, your money isn't really money anyway. It's a combination of paper and digital bits in a register, the value of which is inflated away every time there's an economic downturn in Europe. Sounds familiar. If I didn't know any better I'd say it sounds like exactly what's going on over here in 'Murica. Oh, that's right it is..... Does anything about that sound "free for all". The only invisible hand allowed to operate is the one the central banks have inserted into the proverbial rectum of the elected governments in the developed world. Politicians are too stupid to understand the monetary system (or even the theory of money), but they're smart enough to promise to give you exactly what you ask for every couple of years.

    I used to really LOVE PIZZA! (<----- So as not to be yelled at buy bloodorchid for failing to include something of relevance regarding FOOD in this forum. )
    Went Primal: 20 DEC 2011
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    How many of you were up in arms about the huge increase in "stop-and-frisk" laws in NYC? I don't recall much outrage fromt the "libertarian" types.

    Maybe it's just me, but getting a government pat down seems like a much more insidious infrigement than limitingg a big gulp.

    Please spare me your "statism" crap. It's foolish. Most of you don't really care about it. You've just been conditioned to get your dander up about any law that affects big corporations.
    I'm sure us "libertarian types" care very much and even more about stop-and-frisk, I do know I do. But this thread was about soda. I'd love to have a discussion about all of the other losses of freedom. But it seems every time we try to have an off-topic discussion about things that are relevant to our mental health, i.e., NOT BEING A SLAVE, some whiny little statist has to go and complain about it and have the thread shut down because it's not Paleo enough or some crap. I think the most un-Paleo thing in existence is the presence of government. Was Grok ruled by incompetent Groks that stole from other Groks and redistributed one Grok's food and water to another? Unlikely. Man can rule himself. Government is unnatural and detrimental to our well-being despite the false sense of security many, many, many have come to believe in.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingPig View Post
    As a non-American I find this thread quite an eye-opener. In Europe after the second world war something called the welfare state was built: affordable housing, free healthcare, public schools of very good quality, etc. By the evil government, yes. Now right-wing neoliberals all over Europe who follow the so-called "invisible hand" of the "market" want to destroy those achievements and go the American "free for all" way. Soon ordinary working people in Europe too won't be able to afford going to a hospital, give our kids decent education. Think about that for a second before you paint "government" (as if it doesn't matter what politics they have) with the evil brush.
    Yeah. I hear a lot of you Europeans fall hook, line, and sinker for the whole "government takes perfect care of us" bit. It's likely all you've ever known since birth. You were born into benevolent slavery and you do not even realize it. This welfare state that you speak of is not free. Well, in a sense it is. When all of our money is created out of thin air, sure, free shit for everyone, until the day of reckoning comes and the world realizes that this Monopoly money isn't backed by a single cent of value. Anyway, I digress.

    How it's paid for or not paid for aside, have some dignity, dude. I would rather have absolute freedom to fail or thrive and not receive a drop from the State (that has no actual money of its own; it TAKES from others at gunpoint to redistribute wealth to the chosen few, mainly corporations). You have been lied to. We do not have free markets in the US. There's no such thing, never has been. We have a hybrid system of socialism and fascism. If free markets truly existed, we would not have these bubbles. I don't know where you get your sources of information, but I suggest getting new ones because it sounds like you have been misinformed.

    And while the State throws a few scraps back to the people it takes from, just remember:



    Yes. God save the system! It's so righteous.
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